ウィスパリング同時通訳研究会コミュのConsolidating Democracy: A Candid Discussion with Kenyan Deputy President William Ruto

March 4, 2022

Mvemba Phezo Dizolele: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome. I’m Mvemba Phezo Dizolele, a senior fellow and the director of the Africa Program here at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. We are delighted and honored that you could join us today for this candid conversation on the state of democracy in Kenya. I would like to remember our audience that you can submit your questions through the questions-and-answer link on the event page.

Our guest today, His Excellency William Ruto, needs no introduction. He is the deputy president of Kenya and a contender for the presidency in the upcoming elections. Karibu, Washington, DP Ruto.

Deputy President William Ruto: Thank you very much, Mvemba.

Mr. Dizolele: You are welcome to make your remarks and tell the audience what’s on your mind today.

Deputy President Ruto: Thank you very much. And I much appreciate the fact that you have made this platform on CSIS available to us. And, more particularly, available to the people of Kenya. I’m in Washington for a couple of appointments because the relationship between Kenya and the United States is a wonderful relationship. We have recently, in 2018, elevated that relationship to a strategic relationship, which gives us the latitude to do more as nations. Aside from my engagements with government, there are also engagements on matters to do with the programs we have in Kenya involving farmers, including matters to do with how we can better grow economy, how we can do things better.

And speaking about the subject you have mentioned, the state of democracy in our country, Kenya is sitting in a very hostile territory. Many of the nation-states around us are states that are struggling to be nations. And we stand out. And it puts a lot of pressure on Kenya to remain stable. We believe that it is the democratic culture that will underpin and guarantee the stability and the progress of not just Kenya, but of the region as well. And that’s why 9th of August is a very important date for not just Kenya, but for the region; important because amongst the things that will be on the ballot is our democracy and whether we are moving forward with it or we succumb to the forces that want us to go backwards.

I will tell you there are three things, in my estimation, on the ballot on 9th of August. On the ballot will be a referendum on our constitution, the 2010 constitution that was built to be the most progressive in our region, complete with a comprehensive bill of rights. Today is on the ballot because there are those who belong to our school of thought that think that we have a wonderful constitution, and whatever is remaining, the challenges that are there, is on completing the implementation of that constitution.

Our competitors on the other side believe that the constitution we have is not serving us well. And they have proposed a raft of amendments, close to 72 amendments, completely to reverse the progressive constitution that we have. And I call these people counterreformers.

The second item that is on the ballot this year is our political culture. The decision that Kenyans will be making on 9th of August will be is this about leaders and positions and power, or is it about the people, their empowerment, and their progress? That’s what is on the ballot. We believe very strongly that this election should be about the people. It should be about the empowerment of the people. It should be about what is in it for the people. We’ve had elections about leaders and positions and power, and they are never satisfactory. That’s what makes our politics very high-octane.

And the final item that, in my estimation, will be on the ballot is our economy. And the question people in Kenya will be asking, who does it work for? When I listened to President Biden the day before yesterday, and he made a fundamental statement: Trickle-down doesn’t work. That is a position we took before the U.S. did. In fact, I – we already discovered that trickle-down never worked.

So what is on the ballot is the people who believe we should continue with a trickle-down economic model that benefits a few people and leaves huge sections of our population behind, or those of us who believe that it is time to reimagine our economy and make it work for the majority of the citizens of our republic, and our bottom-up economic model that seeks to create inclusivity, that seeks to create and expand opportunity, to create jobs, to build enterprise, to improve productivity in our agricultural sector, and to create an inclusive society.

These are the issues that will be, in my estimation, on the ballot on the 9th of August. And it will determine – the way that election goes will determine whether we are consolidating our democracy and moving forward or we are denigrating from the gains we have made and so, by so doing, engaging the reverse gear. So that’s where we start.

Mr. Dizolele: Thank you very much, DP Ruto, for your remarks. This will set up our conversation pretty well. I think this will be helpful in laying the basis of our conversation.

So you’ve laid out a number of issues that we’ll tackle in the course of this conversation. Talk about strategic relationship with the United States, engagement with your programs, the stability or lack thereof in the region, and the role that Kenya will be playing in that space. You also talked about what is on the ballot this time. So our question will actually revolve around some of the issues that you’ve raised.

So, first, let’s discuss democracy in Kenya. Many people around the world remember the hotly contested violent, really, general elections of 2017. The elections revealed the schisms in Kenya’s electorate as well as the identity politics of that country.

Fast forward to present day, and Kenya’s general elections are less than six months away. You are one of the main contenders for the presidency. I’d like to hear about your thoughts on democracy in Kenya. How has the Building Bridges Initiative attempted to restructure the state and has it succeeded?

What are pros and cons around the recent election law that permits the grouping of party coalitions? Can you describe successes and failures of recent effort toward voter registration? How are misinformation and human insecurity treating democracy? I think some of those issues are all about the pillars you just laid out. So, please, sir.

Deputy President Ruto: Well, granted, we’ve had challenges with elections and that goes to the heart of what I just spoke about. If we focus on leaders and positions and power, we will never have a peaceful election because not every leader will get the power they want. Not every leader can get the position they want. And that is why we are saying this time around we have to focus on the people – what is in it for the people.

And when we discuss what is in it for the people, jobs for 4 million Kenyans who do not have jobs, access to credit for 15 million Kenyans who are today blacklisted on credit reference bureaus, people who access credit today at anywhere between a thousand and 2,000 percent a year, productivity of farmers – how do we get our farmers to improve their productivity? Milk, for example, from three, four kilos to 15, 20 kilos. Coffee, from two or three kilos per bush to 10, 12 kilos per bush.

That’s the conversation we want to have and that’s why my brother, Musalia Mudavadi, and Moses Wetangula, we came together because we were brought together by the focus of what is in it for the people of Kenya.

We need to focus on the things that matter to the people of Kenya. It will never be possible to create enough positions for all the leaders. It will never be possible to share the power to the extent that everybody wants shared. But it is possible for us to share prosperity if we focus on ensuring that we have a much more prosperous country.

And, therefore, talking about the Building Bridges Initiative, I do not think that there was a single bridge built. In fact, every bridge on site was destroyed. Because of the BBI process, a fraudulent political experiment that left the country worse than before it was started – because of this BBI conundrum, we do not have a government or the opposition. When you mesh the opposition into government, and government into the opposition, you end up with a system of government not known anywhere in the world. It’s not a monarchy. It is not a democracy.

And as a result, the BBI process and sister handshake destroyed the opposition by coopting the opposition into government, compromising the oversight responsibility – constitutional oversight responsibility – of the opposition. It destroyed the governing party. You may want to know that the governing party that had close to 180 members of parliament has degenerated to almost a quarter what it was and has put the party leader of the ruling party in a very awkward position. Today the party leader of the ruling party, that had a majority in parliament, is today as quarter in the opposition.

Destroyed the big plan we had for the transformation of our nation. A plan that had youth empowerment, a plan that agricultural transformation, a plan that had universal health coverage, a plan that had manufacturing, value addition agro-processing was shelved. And in its place this monster, whose only attempt was to do the wrong things. Number one, to try and recreate an imperial presidency – something the people of Kenya fought against for 30 years. Because once you have an executive or a president that controls the executive, controls the judiciary using the ombudsman, and controls the legislature using appointment of executive members into the legislature, you have an imperial president, complete like it was.

There would have been no need to have wasted 30 years fighting for a new constitution if we wanted to end up at the same place. And by so doing, we ended up with four years wasted, down the drain, not implementing the plan – the great plan we had, upon which we were elected. And fortunately, the whole charade was stopped by the courts because of the imminent danger of threats to the independence of the court itself. So we completely – that whole experiment on BBI failed, and failed the country, and costed the country enormously.

Speaking to the issues you have mentioned about 2017, up and until we accept that there is only one way in a democracy that we all go to elections and a democrat must be ready to accept the outcome of an election. The moment you reward bad manners, if I may, then you are building grounds for impunity. And that’s the message – part of the message that I discussed with officials here in Washington, that every presidential candidate must be made to commit that they will respect the will of the people, and they will respect the outcome of the election. I have done it publicly. I am waiting for my competitors to do the same so that we can have a free, fair, peaceful election.

Mr. Dizolele: Very good. Thank you very much, DP Ruto.

I want to follow up on a bunch of points that you raised. One, you know, for those of us observing Kenya, it’s not always about 9th of August; it’s about the day after. And Kenya politics are built around alliances; these alliances, sometimes they’re ethnic, sometimes they’re regional, sometimes – they come in all kinds of forms. It appears that the elites failed to deliver for the people of Kenya. The alliances – maybe it’s what you said earlier; it’s about being a leader and not necessarily living for the people. But there’s also some issues that have been – you mentioned the constitution and what should be done.

You mentioned graft – fraudulent, to use your word. It was fraudulent, the initiative of the BBI. My question is twofold for now: one, you have been in politics for a long time; you have an impressive resume; you’ve been minister of Home Affairs, minister of Agriculture; you’ve been assistant minister in the office of the presidency; now, of course, deputy president of Kenya. How do you see your role in everything that you’ve described, because you’ve been part of that elite that was part of it? Another element – so when you used the word fraudulent, what I hear is a word that I don’t like to use very often because it’s so broad, which is corruption, is mismanagement of resources.

And then the other word you had mentioned early on about the constitution and the courts. There’s an elephant in the room: so, as an outsider speaking with fellow Kenyans and also speaking with people in Washington, 2023, you know – 2003, pardon me, and the elections and the ICC. So you were indicted but the charges were dropped. That has left a lot of discomfort in many quarters, as you well know, of course; I’m not telling you anything new. Your fellow countrymen or women will wonder how things be different with DP Ruto. Those of us outside, your friends, the friends of Kenya in Washington and elsewhere in the world who would like to see change are wondering the same question.

Would you address those issues of weak alliances or driven by different thing your own experience with the ICC and how people may conceive it and see it, how people are worried about the future of justice in part because you come from the same system that you’re denouncing today, and which is the way forward?

Deputy President Ruto: Thank you very much.

First, as you have said, I have been part of the system to a good extent, yes, and I can account and that’s what gives me the track record upon which the people of Kenya will assess my candidature. I was minister for Agriculture and my record and my performance at the Ministry of Agriculture is something I’m very proud of, and the people of Kenya know it, and it’s part of the reason why my candidature is very viable. Same thing to do with my record at the Ministry of Higher Education and same thing in my position as deputy president. My contribution to the progress and development of Kenya is built on a solid track record and the people of Kenya in their entirety are a very intelligent people; they know what to choose and I am no stranger. They know what I can do and they have a good account of my track record as a public servant. I think let’s leave that there.

My experience with ICC. I am a very strong believer in the belief of innocence until you’re found otherwise. And to the record, President Uhuru Kenyatta and I submitted ourselves to the process in ICC. We didn’t run away. We didn’t escape. We submitted ourselves to the process. And the process itself cleared us. So there are many innocent people who are taken to court. Being taken to court doesn’t demonstrate any guilt of whatever nature.

So I thought you should be looking at it positively, that this is a man that is willing to submit himself to the rule of law. And that’s my position. And that is why I can comfortably tell you, seated here, that I will respect the outcome of the election, whichever way it goes, because I am a believer in the rule of law. I’m a believer in constitutionality. And if anybody brought whatever challenge my way, I would deal with it within the parameters of the law and the rule of law and international justice.

And maybe, finally, post-2022, I am very confident that August 10th, going into after the election, Kenya is going to be peaceful. I am very confident. And the people of Kenya, I believe, will do their thing. They will elect the leaders of their choice. And Kenya will walk into the future confidently.