After Yokozuna Takanohana/Wakanohana brother's retirement, sumo scene
has been sluggish due to lack of iconic figures.
Soon, Asashoryu became the Yokozuna and even though he was known as
the "bad boy" due to some of his questionable actions, he has been
one of the crowd's favorites for long time.
I'm not a huge sumo fan myself, but his retirement will definitely
going to be a huge hit on the sumo scene and the committee.
One source says his retirement may result in a loss of around
2.4 billion yen, and there's a good chance that sumo scene may again,
slip back into the dark ages.
Yes, there were numerous scandals involving his actions. Many says
it's not all about just being the strongest, but you must have the
"hinkaku" (nobleness, a role model, ethics, virtues . . etc.)
when it comes to being a Yokozuna.
But I think the biggest problem was committee's incompetence,
or lack of management. They should of taken alternate actions before
it came to all this in the first place.
Any thoughts? What's your thought on "hinkaku"?
has been sluggish due to lack of iconic figures.
Soon, Asashoryu became the Yokozuna and even though he was known as
the "bad boy" due to some of his questionable actions, he has been
one of the crowd's favorites for long time.
I'm not a huge sumo fan myself, but his retirement will definitely
going to be a huge hit on the sumo scene and the committee.
One source says his retirement may result in a loss of around
2.4 billion yen, and there's a good chance that sumo scene may again,
slip back into the dark ages.
Yes, there were numerous scandals involving his actions. Many says
it's not all about just being the strongest, but you must have the
"hinkaku" (nobleness, a role model, ethics, virtues . . etc.)
when it comes to being a Yokozuna.
But I think the biggest problem was committee's incompetence,
or lack of management. They should of taken alternate actions before
it came to all this in the first place.
Any thoughts? What's your thought on "hinkaku"?
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コメント(28)
Hard to feel any sympathy for the guys who forced him to retire, considering that big cock-up they just had with their little election. It was one of those Japanese things where all the sumo bosses had an "election" to pick their leader, and supposedly everyone was going to vote a certain way, but then one of the younger guys changed his vote so a different guy won, and they all got together to figure out who switched, and forced him to retire.
If it makes trouble for douchebags like that, I hope Asashouryu starts a fight every night.
If it makes trouble for douchebags like that, I hope Asashouryu starts a fight every night.
I was a bit flabbergasted to hear the news. However I have now another thought since Asasyouryu was a Yokozuna, Grand champion so he should've discipined himself. And the stable master is the one who take care of all the sumo wrestlers including Yokozunas. If Takasago master had faced Asasyouryu more strictly, Asasyouryu could have become real Yokozuna.
This is the same sport that doesn't allow women to touch the ring because it makes it impure, right? I'm by no means a feminist but fuck'm.
I love watching two big enormous fat men beat the living tar out of each other as much as the next guy but between the corruption in the leadership ranks, imbued racism, sexism etc, sumo seems to be indicative of the problems facing Japan as a whole.
I love watching two big enormous fat men beat the living tar out of each other as much as the next guy but between the corruption in the leadership ranks, imbued racism, sexism etc, sumo seems to be indicative of the problems facing Japan as a whole.
Aside the bs election scandals of the committee or the board of trustee or whatever they call themselves (it's a whole different issue...), I don't understand why some talk about this as a management issue of the committee. AsaShouryu is an adult. He's capable of moving to another country and establish himself in a twisted world like Sumo industry, I'm sure he's also well capable of knowing whether or not it is acceptable to punch a guy so hard his nose breaks ESPECIALLY given that he is a professional fighter.
It's just like when a college student goes out and rapes someone and the media broadcasts the name of the school he attends and the school apologizes as if it is responsible for every personal decisions made by all students. This is collective identity confused with collective responsibility. Do they ever consider its implication on other students and the value of their degrees?
Also, >> 4
I agree with the corruption in the sumo leadership is ridiculous but don't be so iconoclastic. It was a while back the modernism was an absolute and perfect value. lol I think examining any tradition with the modern values and logic out of its original context will leave us with only superficial survey of HOW it is by today's standard BUT the cultural and historic significances of WHY the things were set up that way to begin with. You know the former female governor of Osaka Ota faced a strong opposition from the public (and not only men) when she tried to force her way up to the Sumo ring. The same goes for all the problems facing Japan (or any other country), it's easy to simplify and evaluate them in general terms & modern values but the truth is they all have deep, intricately intertwined roots that need encompassed. And could you please elaborate on racism in sumo industry? They've had white European wrestlers, non-Japanese Asians of course, the Samoans, and a black American as far as I know.
It's just like when a college student goes out and rapes someone and the media broadcasts the name of the school he attends and the school apologizes as if it is responsible for every personal decisions made by all students. This is collective identity confused with collective responsibility. Do they ever consider its implication on other students and the value of their degrees?
Also, >> 4
I agree with the corruption in the sumo leadership is ridiculous but don't be so iconoclastic. It was a while back the modernism was an absolute and perfect value. lol I think examining any tradition with the modern values and logic out of its original context will leave us with only superficial survey of HOW it is by today's standard BUT the cultural and historic significances of WHY the things were set up that way to begin with. You know the former female governor of Osaka Ota faced a strong opposition from the public (and not only men) when she tried to force her way up to the Sumo ring. The same goes for all the problems facing Japan (or any other country), it's easy to simplify and evaluate them in general terms & modern values but the truth is they all have deep, intricately intertwined roots that need encompassed. And could you please elaborate on racism in sumo industry? They've had white European wrestlers, non-Japanese Asians of course, the Samoans, and a black American as far as I know.
I also agree that Takasago Oyakata should of taken the matter seriously, instead of turning away every time
the TV crew rushes him. But again, his highest rank during his career was Ohzeki which is one rank lower than
Yokozuna, so he may of not had the leverage to control Asashoryu.
Asashoryu reminds me of Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson was charged with multiple convictions and served jail time,
but he was able to return to the ring even though he was a "professional fighter". You may say "well, that's
boxing, and it's not same as the grand sumo", but if the sumo committee cares about the "sumo's brand image"
that much, then they should of taken more action before the whole downward spiral began several years ago.
"Hinkaku" is difficult to grasp. There are lots of Japanese people who lacks "hinkaku" and some may not even
know what it's all about. Now how hard would it be for the foreigners to understand such ideology? Certainly
NOT easy, and it's up to the Oyakatas and the sumo committee to instruct and guide the young wrestlers.
I bet the sumo committee's going to act like nothing had happened, and if the committee stays the same and
doesn't learn from this incident, it will end up haunting them in the future. (I hope Takanohana will change things around)
In a Japanese culture, there's a thing where people kind of understand each other and expect each other to
understand without mentioning, which can be both good and bad. Where as in foreign countries, you usually tell
the other person EXACTLY what and how things needs to be done, since people usually don't "expect" others to
understand without mentioning. Why do Japanese people understand and expect others to understand without
mentioning? It's hard to explain, but it's one of those cultural thing.
Degree of expectation can be different among countries, and the sumo committee needs to understand that
if they want more foreign wrestlers to join the scene.
the TV crew rushes him. But again, his highest rank during his career was Ohzeki which is one rank lower than
Yokozuna, so he may of not had the leverage to control Asashoryu.
Asashoryu reminds me of Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson was charged with multiple convictions and served jail time,
but he was able to return to the ring even though he was a "professional fighter". You may say "well, that's
boxing, and it's not same as the grand sumo", but if the sumo committee cares about the "sumo's brand image"
that much, then they should of taken more action before the whole downward spiral began several years ago.
"Hinkaku" is difficult to grasp. There are lots of Japanese people who lacks "hinkaku" and some may not even
know what it's all about. Now how hard would it be for the foreigners to understand such ideology? Certainly
NOT easy, and it's up to the Oyakatas and the sumo committee to instruct and guide the young wrestlers.
I bet the sumo committee's going to act like nothing had happened, and if the committee stays the same and
doesn't learn from this incident, it will end up haunting them in the future. (I hope Takanohana will change things around)
In a Japanese culture, there's a thing where people kind of understand each other and expect each other to
understand without mentioning, which can be both good and bad. Where as in foreign countries, you usually tell
the other person EXACTLY what and how things needs to be done, since people usually don't "expect" others to
understand without mentioning. Why do Japanese people understand and expect others to understand without
mentioning? It's hard to explain, but it's one of those cultural thing.
Degree of expectation can be different among countries, and the sumo committee needs to understand that
if they want more foreign wrestlers to join the scene.
"Why do Japanese people understand and expect others to understand without
mentioning?" It`s called arrogance. And Asa was just being a drunken young person in Tokyo. Unfortunately, in his particular position of Modern day Samurai/Sumo he is not allowed to do that. Better he gets out now on top, rather than wait to screw up worse later and be demoted and kicked out anyway. They didn`t want to see him top the Old greats records. Rumor is they were uneasy about him doing that while acting so un Japanese. I can believe that. He is better off this way. Watch and see.
mentioning?" It`s called arrogance. And Asa was just being a drunken young person in Tokyo. Unfortunately, in his particular position of Modern day Samurai/Sumo he is not allowed to do that. Better he gets out now on top, rather than wait to screw up worse later and be demoted and kicked out anyway. They didn`t want to see him top the Old greats records. Rumor is they were uneasy about him doing that while acting so un Japanese. I can believe that. He is better off this way. Watch and see.
Sumo is not a sport but sumo-dou which is more like sumo ceremony. Therefore, each sumo
wrestler is required to emphasize one's mentality as well as physicality. In terms of Sumo,
when they talk about mentality, it means almost meditative level so one is not allow to raise
both arms and express emotion even he wins. Behaving like Professional American Football
player, Asashoryu didn't fully understand about ceremony aspect of sumo and hinkaku.
Problem of Sumo industry is that it's getting narrow minded each year. This is due to
lack of Japanese Yokozuna, the committee is desperate to get one.
Personally I consider that whoever win tournaments and the most strong person should be Yokozuna and since Sumo is our national sports and committee has deep attachment to hinkaku, they should at least have a special education program about hinkaku to wrestlers from
abroad. Asashoryu loved Sumo from bottom of his heart and it is a great loss for Sumo
industry and I miss his appearance on dohyo, we should not have another victim from now on.
wrestler is required to emphasize one's mentality as well as physicality. In terms of Sumo,
when they talk about mentality, it means almost meditative level so one is not allow to raise
both arms and express emotion even he wins. Behaving like Professional American Football
player, Asashoryu didn't fully understand about ceremony aspect of sumo and hinkaku.
Problem of Sumo industry is that it's getting narrow minded each year. This is due to
lack of Japanese Yokozuna, the committee is desperate to get one.
Personally I consider that whoever win tournaments and the most strong person should be Yokozuna and since Sumo is our national sports and committee has deep attachment to hinkaku, they should at least have a special education program about hinkaku to wrestlers from
abroad. Asashoryu loved Sumo from bottom of his heart and it is a great loss for Sumo
industry and I miss his appearance on dohyo, we should not have another victim from now on.
>>TokyoOG
Japanese culture doesn't prefer implicit communication for no reason or just to be arrogant. It's a form of respect, a way to avoid unnecessary dispute (it's a necessity considering the given high population density), and a style. The Japanese aesthetic sense finds beauty in what is NOT shown. It's sexier and more stylish, and more sophisticated than to expose all that is there like cheap porno for little boys as opposed to poems, riddles, or conundrums. And I'm guessing it's not exclusively a "Japanese" concept per se since there is an English expression "read between the lines".
Japanese culture doesn't prefer implicit communication for no reason or just to be arrogant. It's a form of respect, a way to avoid unnecessary dispute (it's a necessity considering the given high population density), and a style. The Japanese aesthetic sense finds beauty in what is NOT shown. It's sexier and more stylish, and more sophisticated than to expose all that is there like cheap porno for little boys as opposed to poems, riddles, or conundrums. And I'm guessing it's not exclusively a "Japanese" concept per se since there is an English expression "read between the lines".
>>juNkdrAwer
Isn't dispute necessary sometimes? Quite frankly your argument seems to be a red herring; it's one thing to look at a picture and imagine the hidden beauty, it's another thing to have to figure out what's *not* being said 24/7.
As far as "read between the lines" goes, in English it's just an expression. In Japanese it's a way of life
Isn't dispute necessary sometimes? Quite frankly your argument seems to be a red herring; it's one thing to look at a picture and imagine the hidden beauty, it's another thing to have to figure out what's *not* being said 24/7.
As far as "read between the lines" goes, in English it's just an expression. In Japanese it's a way of life
>> Dan,
If it was possible for us to have no dispute the world would have taken it a long time ago and would still. But necessary to us or not, it will always happen, so we decide which is worth fighting and which isn't, hence my wording; "to avoid unnecessary disputes" instead of ALL disputes.
There are a few different reasons why Japanese people might coose implicit communication depending on the situation so if you want to give me an example of an instance you don't understand I can explain it to you. But for the most part it's simply because it's convenient and saves everyone's face. That's a god honest truth.
And you are right, it is, in a way "a way of life" in that you have to master it to be accepted as a functioning member of the Japanese society and not another foreigner-passing-through. So to put it simply, like it or hate it, it's just how it's done in Japan for various reasons so people have to either learn it or leave it if choose to live there.
If it was possible for us to have no dispute the world would have taken it a long time ago and would still. But necessary to us or not, it will always happen, so we decide which is worth fighting and which isn't, hence my wording; "to avoid unnecessary disputes" instead of ALL disputes.
There are a few different reasons why Japanese people might coose implicit communication depending on the situation so if you want to give me an example of an instance you don't understand I can explain it to you. But for the most part it's simply because it's convenient and saves everyone's face. That's a god honest truth.
And you are right, it is, in a way "a way of life" in that you have to master it to be accepted as a functioning member of the Japanese society and not another foreigner-passing-through. So to put it simply, like it or hate it, it's just how it's done in Japan for various reasons so people have to either learn it or leave it if choose to live there.
It's probably a good idea to retire early if you have clear post-retirement career in place (Asashoryu's probably gonna continue to run his business back home) since sumo wrestlers die early. Getting out should extend his life and in his case probably even improve his quality of life. Too bad tho, I'm gonna miss this "heel".
>"Why do Japanese people understand and expect others to understand without mentioning?" It`s called arrogance
It's interesting how people with various cultural background see things differently, but I don't think this can be simply described by words like "arrogance". Unlike in English, Japanese can be spoken and understood without mentioning the "subject". It's very common to omit the use of subject in a sentence, because that's just how the Japanese language is structured. And saying it's "arrogance" is like saying the Japanese linguistic structure itself is arrogance.
"kyuuki wo yomu" (direct translation is "to read air") or "read between the lines" is like an extension to that, and it's very important in Japanese society. Without one, that person will be labeled as a person who "lacks in communication skills" and likely to become isolated from a group. In Japanese society, it's called "ignorance", and I'm pretty sure that's how Asashoryu was seen from the public's eye.
Like I've said, these thing are not easy to grasp. These are one of those "live and learn" things, and in Asashoryu's case, it was the Oyakata and the sumo committee's responsibility to explain these things to the youth.
It's interesting how people with various cultural background see things differently, but I don't think this can be simply described by words like "arrogance". Unlike in English, Japanese can be spoken and understood without mentioning the "subject". It's very common to omit the use of subject in a sentence, because that's just how the Japanese language is structured. And saying it's "arrogance" is like saying the Japanese linguistic structure itself is arrogance.
"kyuuki wo yomu" (direct translation is "to read air") or "read between the lines" is like an extension to that, and it's very important in Japanese society. Without one, that person will be labeled as a person who "lacks in communication skills" and likely to become isolated from a group. In Japanese society, it's called "ignorance", and I'm pretty sure that's how Asashoryu was seen from the public's eye.
Like I've said, these thing are not easy to grasp. These are one of those "live and learn" things, and in Asashoryu's case, it was the Oyakata and the sumo committee's responsibility to explain these things to the youth.
Goodbye Asashoryu. I'm so gutted that he's retired from Sumo, I guess he had no choice.
When I moved to Japan in the summer of 2006 he was dominating Sumo. I didn't like him at first (us Brits like to support the underdog
） but I grew to appreciate his amazing passion, and his exciting, skillful and inventive style of Sumo.
I know that he's unpopular with many Japanese people because of his behaviour, and I agree some of it was inexcusable. He said himself, his character wasn't suited to what's expected from a Yokozuna (in terms of Hinkaku）. But I think that some criticisms were unfair (the football match and the golf for example）. The tabloids hounded him, but I understand why. His problems in his personal life made things worse. I think he's a good person.
In the end, he leaves Sumo as one of the greatest wrestlers ever and 3rd on the all-time yusho list. It's really sad that he had to retire so young.
Asa, thank you for all the great moments, Sumo won't be the same without you. I wish you well.
When I moved to Japan in the summer of 2006 he was dominating Sumo. I didn't like him at first (us Brits like to support the underdog
） but I grew to appreciate his amazing passion, and his exciting, skillful and inventive style of Sumo.I know that he's unpopular with many Japanese people because of his behaviour, and I agree some of it was inexcusable. He said himself, his character wasn't suited to what's expected from a Yokozuna (in terms of Hinkaku）. But I think that some criticisms were unfair (the football match and the golf for example）. The tabloids hounded him, but I understand why. His problems in his personal life made things worse. I think he's a good person.
In the end, he leaves Sumo as one of the greatest wrestlers ever and 3rd on the all-time yusho list. It's really sad that he had to retire so young.
Asa, thank you for all the great moments, Sumo won't be the same without you. I wish you well.
First, let me correct one thing.
In post #19, it says"kyuuki wo yomu" but it's actually "kuuki wo yomu". Little typo there.
>But I think that some criticisms were unfair (the football match and the golf for example）
I'm not sure about the golf part, but as far as the whole football/soccer controversy, Asashoryu supposedly had a knee injury and a fatigue fracture, so he went back to mongol to take a break. But later people found out that he was running around playing soccer, and that's why the committee blew up on him. Guy of his size running around with a bad knee . . . there's lotta risk there even if he was completely healthy because there's already enough stress on his knee as is, and chasing soccer ball is not going to help.
In post #19, it says"kyuuki wo yomu" but it's actually "kuuki wo yomu". Little typo there.
>But I think that some criticisms were unfair (the football match and the golf for example）
I'm not sure about the golf part, but as far as the whole football/soccer controversy, Asashoryu supposedly had a knee injury and a fatigue fracture, so he went back to mongol to take a break. But later people found out that he was running around playing soccer, and that's why the committee blew up on him. Guy of his size running around with a bad knee . . . there's lotta risk there even if he was completely healthy because there's already enough stress on his knee as is, and chasing soccer ball is not going to help.
I really miss taht Asashouryu isn't in sumo world,but Judging from his behaviore it could be natural for him not to stay in sumo world There are many sports now but only smo world is quite different from other sports because sumo is a traditional and national sport in Ja There are sevire laws to obey
Mike Tyson injured someone outside the ring and went to jail for it while Asa goes to Hawaii to chill out. They must have paid the guy that got the broken nose a bundle of cash to shut up and stay low. Hard to feel sorry for a Millionaire. But I will miss him in the Sumo line up. He was one of the few with personality. Unfortunately that was also his down fall.
#14 "It's sexier and more stylish, and more sophisticated than to expose all that is there like cheap porno for little boys as opposed to poems, riddles, or conundrums." Monzai is a good example of how wrong this statement is. Drunken salary men on Friday night is another. And there is lots not being said by Prime Minister Hattoyama and his boyz. Yeah... read between the lines. They actually got you believing that shit. Wow.
#14 "It's sexier and more stylish, and more sophisticated than to expose all that is there like cheap porno for little boys as opposed to poems, riddles, or conundrums." Monzai is a good example of how wrong this statement is. Drunken salary men on Friday night is another. And there is lots not being said by Prime Minister Hattoyama and his boyz. Yeah... read between the lines. They actually got you believing that shit. Wow.
> pepperjackさん
I'm sure it was a shoulder injury, but anyway his suspension wasn't for risking injury but for allegedly faking injury to miss an exhibition tournament. My understanding is that many Yokozuna have routinely taken time off in the past in similar circumstances. He was effectively punished for appearing in public, and his previous transgressions. The level of punishment seemed harsh, he took part in the match at the request of his government and there were no reports of him doing anything to risk his ‘injury'.
I'm sure it was a shoulder injury, but anyway his suspension wasn't for risking injury but for allegedly faking injury to miss an exhibition tournament. My understanding is that many Yokozuna have routinely taken time off in the past in similar circumstances. He was effectively punished for appearing in public, and his previous transgressions. The level of punishment seemed harsh, he took part in the match at the request of his government and there were no reports of him doing anything to risk his ‘injury'.
Honestly: He disgraced the sport. I'm sure his being non-Japanese played a mitigating role in the decision to pressure him toward retirement, but Asa's basically a spoiled brat who's good at what he does...and that's it. He's been in numerous fights, smashed people up, and walked away from what amounted to assault charges. Every sport has their bad eggs, and those people get charged just as everyone else. In the States, we've grown used to having bad boys on the court and field, and don't eject them because, well, they sell merchandise. That the Sumo Association's decided to uphold the "prestige" of their sport is honorable. That they've decided to pay Asa JPY120 million as a retirement allowance is unnerving. (What do ticketholders think? Like, thanks, let me pay a criminal to retire.)
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