What is the reason for all the violence at Soccer games? This doesn`t happen at baseball, basketball or American football. Why do people in Europe and latin America come to the games to fight? Why is it not just a "game" for some people?
I really can`t understand why adults carry on this way.
I really can`t understand why adults carry on this way.
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コメント(43)
> TokyoOG
> baseball, basketball or American football.
if members of two rival gangs (supporting different clubs) will watch the game sitting in the same section, this can also happen. Simple, people, who come to games make difference.
> さぃ…
> EUROS ARE UNCIVILIZED SAVAGES.
Stupid statement.
The real problem is, who is watching a football game. I come from Poland and we have problems with so-called football fans. Mostly they are frustrated with their lives (it's not a general rule, but - ok... it's probably different elsewhere, but those are my impressions from Poland - usually young people, coming from poor families, not educated, without decent jobs, involved in street gangs, nazi organizations) and starting fight before/during/after the game is a way to "shine" (feeling "someone", when you are in group of people, which can beat police and destroy couple of restaurants on your way).
If they can't do it during games, they will do it ("enemy" will be different, of course) elsewhere.
This was one of the reasons (the other was quality of the football -_o), I've never saw a "top" football game in Poland (but went to see Arsenal at Highbury and Arsenal game vs West Ham United at Upton Park, where I was sitting in West Ham fans section). Supporting your team is one thing, but getting injured the other.
It's up to clubs and football associations to fight it. In England they managed to eliminate violence during games. ok... there are some other aspects, like ticket prices, which in fact make selection (if you pay 50 pounds for a ticket & know what are the fines, you will think twice or more, before you start a riot). But in some countries those problems were or are ignored.
And this is also amazing to me. Why clubs don't fight it, when - during a game - there are more than 50% of empty seats, just because nobody normal will risk to watch a game with a family, surrounded by hord of trolls?
> baseball, basketball or American football.
if members of two rival gangs (supporting different clubs) will watch the game sitting in the same section, this can also happen. Simple, people, who come to games make difference.
> さぃ…
> EUROS ARE UNCIVILIZED SAVAGES.
Stupid statement.
The real problem is, who is watching a football game. I come from Poland and we have problems with so-called football fans. Mostly they are frustrated with their lives (it's not a general rule, but - ok... it's probably different elsewhere, but those are my impressions from Poland - usually young people, coming from poor families, not educated, without decent jobs, involved in street gangs, nazi organizations) and starting fight before/during/after the game is a way to "shine" (feeling "someone", when you are in group of people, which can beat police and destroy couple of restaurants on your way).
If they can't do it during games, they will do it ("enemy" will be different, of course) elsewhere.
This was one of the reasons (the other was quality of the football -_o), I've never saw a "top" football game in Poland (but went to see Arsenal at Highbury and Arsenal game vs West Ham United at Upton Park, where I was sitting in West Ham fans section). Supporting your team is one thing, but getting injured the other.
It's up to clubs and football associations to fight it. In England they managed to eliminate violence during games. ok... there are some other aspects, like ticket prices, which in fact make selection (if you pay 50 pounds for a ticket & know what are the fines, you will think twice or more, before you start a riot). But in some countries those problems were or are ignored.
And this is also amazing to me. Why clubs don't fight it, when - during a game - there are more than 50% of empty seats, just because nobody normal will risk to watch a game with a family, surrounded by hord of trolls?
They could make it mandatory for every ticket holder to pay a deposit of (some large enough amount) of money that they get returned to them when they leave the stadium as long as they are not envolved in any fights/violence.
If they stood to loose their $500 deposit for fighting they might think twice before starting trouble.
If they stood to loose their $500 deposit for fighting they might think twice before starting trouble.
Football violence is not always inside stadium. Quite the opposite. It is just as often outside stadiums.
I once saw English hooligans smashing a pub in Oslo. This was in 1994 when England didn't manage to qualify for the 94 World Cup because we beat them. Take that Maggie. Get over it. Have to admit, it was quite entertaining watching that is. I don't believe in fighting and punching people so it's not my style but it was fun watching English fans destroying this pub. I am not sure what they were thinking. There were maybe about 50-100 people? Throwing glasses, chairs and destroying this pub. Then the police came and there were maybe 500-1000 at the scene watching what was going on.
I went down there because I wanted to see what hooligans looked like and had my doubts that there would be trouble and I was right. I think times are better now then in the early 90s though with the exception of Italy.
A friend of mine who is English who is football mad said that on one occasion the tabloid press had come up to them and bribed people for them to start fighting because if there is football trouble the tabloids will see more papers. This was in Belgium in 2000.
I wasn't in Germany but I doubt there were any episodes there.
Europeans could always stop playing football and start playing baseball instead. That would solve the problem wouldn't it?
I once saw English hooligans smashing a pub in Oslo. This was in 1994 when England didn't manage to qualify for the 94 World Cup because we beat them. Take that Maggie. Get over it. Have to admit, it was quite entertaining watching that is. I don't believe in fighting and punching people so it's not my style but it was fun watching English fans destroying this pub. I am not sure what they were thinking. There were maybe about 50-100 people? Throwing glasses, chairs and destroying this pub. Then the police came and there were maybe 500-1000 at the scene watching what was going on.
I went down there because I wanted to see what hooligans looked like and had my doubts that there would be trouble and I was right. I think times are better now then in the early 90s though with the exception of Italy.
A friend of mine who is English who is football mad said that on one occasion the tabloid press had come up to them and bribed people for them to start fighting because if there is football trouble the tabloids will see more papers. This was in Belgium in 2000.
I wasn't in Germany but I doubt there were any episodes there.
Europeans could always stop playing football and start playing baseball instead. That would solve the problem wouldn't it?
America is not free from these fights! I'm from Chicago, and believe me it gets heated when the Cubs play the Sox. There are always fights. I'm a Sox fan, and I have a lot of friends who like the Cubs, so I never get involved in this quarreling. When the Red Sox play the Yankees, those get pretty heated too. Its probably not as bad as the violence in soccer, but you get the point right. People fight over sporting events.
In Italy, there are fan clubs but in reality
they are extortionists. They organise fans to
travel to away games, organise buses etc. But
they also make threats against the club they
support and basically extort free tickets to
games and other benefits. So they're holding
maybe 5 or 6 thousand tickets and they decide
who goes. They choose there people from inside
the gang people who will do what they want them
to. Surprise, surprise no women. Maybe Eku is
right that testosterone is a cause.
they are extortionists. They organise fans to
travel to away games, organise buses etc. But
they also make threats against the club they
support and basically extort free tickets to
games and other benefits. So they're holding
maybe 5 or 6 thousand tickets and they decide
who goes. They choose there people from inside
the gang people who will do what they want them
to. Surprise, surprise no women. Maybe Eku is
right that testosterone is a cause.
Just like how Raiders fans have a really bad reputation. I don't get it either.
Or maybe its just the need to belong to something.
Violence is a strong part of man. =]
No matter how far we advance as a Civilization. You still can't get ride of those Instinctual actions as a Man. Besides, We are still just mere Animals.
Smart, bust still animals.
Or maybe its just the need to belong to something.
Violence is a strong part of man. =]
No matter how far we advance as a Civilization. You still can't get ride of those Instinctual actions as a Man. Besides, We are still just mere Animals.
Smart, bust still animals.
I think the male factor must be part of the
problem but it doesn't explain why you don't
see that sort of violence in the United States,
Japan, Australia or New Zealand.
Maybe another thing to consider is centuries
of animosity. If you ask a Serbian why they
hate Bosnians so much they can list old scores
that date back centuries. I think that sort of
hatred must be reinforced from a very young
age.
Anyway, I'm not really sure but maybe it plays
a part.
problem but it doesn't explain why you don't
see that sort of violence in the United States,
Japan, Australia or New Zealand.
Maybe another thing to consider is centuries
of animosity. If you ask a Serbian why they
hate Bosnians so much they can list old scores
that date back centuries. I think that sort of
hatred must be reinforced from a very young
age.
Anyway, I'm not really sure but maybe it plays
a part.
4> さぃ… EUROS ARE UNCIVILIZED SAVAGES.
Am I the only person who found this funny?
10> skindeep... The violence is due to Anglo-Saxon desire to release their emotional angst,for whatever reason.
Nothing to do with emotional angst. International football matches are a good excuse to have small wars against other countries without the americans stepping in and bombing the shit out of everything. Everyone can join in and they don't even need billions of dollars worth of arms budget.
Some people take football far too seriously. Personally I don't like football. I've never been to watch a football match, I don't support a team and I won't watch it on TV even if its the world cup. A good way to stop football violence would be to just fill the stadium with concrete half way through the match. I loathe that stupid sport and the millions spent on it.
Am I the only person who found this funny?
10> skindeep... The violence is due to Anglo-Saxon desire to release their emotional angst,for whatever reason.
Nothing to do with emotional angst. International football matches are a good excuse to have small wars against other countries without the americans stepping in and bombing the shit out of everything. Everyone can join in and they don't even need billions of dollars worth of arms budget.
Some people take football far too seriously. Personally I don't like football. I've never been to watch a football match, I don't support a team and I won't watch it on TV even if its the world cup. A good way to stop football violence would be to just fill the stadium with concrete half way through the match. I loathe that stupid sport and the millions spent on it.
I could be wrong (I'm saying this without ever reading any statistics or anything similar), but I always associated hooliganism and violence in soccer to people with comparatively lower degrees of education, or significant rates of absentism in school. Also, for many people, things in life are going bad, and the victories of their soccer team become the only thing which can give him a feeling of superiority over other people. If you can't win in life, then at least you can become a part of your team's victory. When the team fails, or the referees make bad decisions, they will do anything to protect their self-esteem from defeat.
Other people joing hooliganism only to deal in drugs traffic and fireams traffic. There is a lot of money to be made from that. Other people join hooliganism because they are violent in nature. Hooliganism presents opportunities to be violent with lesser chances of getting caught (if you can generate a big riot, police forces will have more difficulty in arresting all the responsible people for it).
Other people joing hooliganism only to deal in drugs traffic and fireams traffic. There is a lot of money to be made from that. Other people join hooliganism because they are violent in nature. Hooliganism presents opportunities to be violent with lesser chances of getting caught (if you can generate a big riot, police forces will have more difficulty in arresting all the responsible people for it).
M"REAL football as NFL"
Yes sir. REAL football is NFL and FAKE football is soccer. I get your point. It is just a name but it has puzzled me that American football is called football when they hardly ever use their feet. They should have called it throw ball or hand ball. Something but football.
Then there is calling baseball "World Series" It is not
"World Series" They shold call it "North American Series" Japan is the "World Champions" in baseball. But whatever.
Yes sir. REAL football is NFL and FAKE football is soccer. I get your point. It is just a name but it has puzzled me that American football is called football when they hardly ever use their feet. They should have called it throw ball or hand ball. Something but football.
Then there is calling baseball "World Series" It is not
"World Series" They shold call it "North American Series" Japan is the "World Champions" in baseball. But whatever.
At least europe gave the world sophistication...culture...intelligence, a little bit more than hot dog hahaha
half the ''hooligans'' as you guys call it don't go to the football matches to watch the game, they are too hyped about protecting their teams respect off the pitch.
It's also a lot more organised than most people think.
half the ''hooligans'' as you guys call it don't go to the football matches to watch the game, they are too hyped about protecting their teams respect off the pitch.
It's also a lot more organised than most people think.
26> M...
When I studied in Southampton, UK I lived near the football stadium. Everytime Portsmouth would play Southampton (back in the days when Southampton were still in the Premiership) no matter what side won you'd have terrible violence. I remember the Portsmouth fans loosing one days, smashing up a whole street then trying to set fire to one of the shopping centers.
Oh and as for 'former' colonial issues, I live in a colony and there are still some major f**king issues... (though thats an entirely different rant).
Football hooligans have nothing to do with Europe. You get violent people all over the world. Its just a matter of time before we start getting Golf hooligans.
When I studied in Southampton, UK I lived near the football stadium. Everytime Portsmouth would play Southampton (back in the days when Southampton were still in the Premiership) no matter what side won you'd have terrible violence. I remember the Portsmouth fans loosing one days, smashing up a whole street then trying to set fire to one of the shopping centers.
Oh and as for 'former' colonial issues, I live in a colony and there are still some major f**king issues... (though thats an entirely different rant).
Football hooligans have nothing to do with Europe. You get violent people all over the world. Its just a matter of time before we start getting Golf hooligans.
This one's easy. Soccer's sexual roots are in the European fascination with foreplay. The dynamics are all about building up tempo and momentum, then most often being dissapointed with not kicking a "goal". In other words, it's boring to watch.
The key to understanding soccer is the the association a fan has between their team and their own sexual ability to 'kick goals'. When one country can 'kick goals' better than the best of your country, well, what does that say about your own virility. Of course it's all rubbish, a countries' virility has nothing to do with a soccer match, but that's the latent sexual undertones of the game in the players and supporters is quite real, hence the overflow of frustration when you don't do well.
Plus, the players on-field are such posers when it comes to a little bit of pain, and it's polite on-field. Get a game like Aussie football, where the violence is on-field, the fans get to see it, confront it, and don't need to conduct it themselves (besides, lots of goals are kicked by both sides. Any ice-hockey fans out there know of any hockey fans rioting after a game? I'd be interested to know. Similar thing, lots of on-field violence, and lots of goals equals a pacified non-frustrated crowd).
I don't see any golf-riots happening. Golf is a masturbatory game, getting the "ball" in the "hole" with the "fewest possible strokes". It's self-satisfying...
...and it's seriously boring to watch...
The key to understanding soccer is the the association a fan has between their team and their own sexual ability to 'kick goals'. When one country can 'kick goals' better than the best of your country, well, what does that say about your own virility. Of course it's all rubbish, a countries' virility has nothing to do with a soccer match, but that's the latent sexual undertones of the game in the players and supporters is quite real, hence the overflow of frustration when you don't do well.
Plus, the players on-field are such posers when it comes to a little bit of pain, and it's polite on-field. Get a game like Aussie football, where the violence is on-field, the fans get to see it, confront it, and don't need to conduct it themselves (besides, lots of goals are kicked by both sides. Any ice-hockey fans out there know of any hockey fans rioting after a game? I'd be interested to know. Similar thing, lots of on-field violence, and lots of goals equals a pacified non-frustrated crowd).
I don't see any golf-riots happening. Golf is a masturbatory game, getting the "ball" in the "hole" with the "fewest possible strokes". It's self-satisfying...
...and it's seriously boring to watch...
TokyoOG > This doesn't happen in American sports? Really? So you'd be happy to, for example, go to watch the Philadelphia Eagles (in Philadelphia) wearing a Dallas Cowboys shirt? You wouldn't consider that a bit risky?
Just wondering, because this article made me think that perhaps crowd violence in American sports is a lot more prevalent than people like to think:
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/americansports/comment/0,10160,1660848,00.html
Just wondering, because this article made me think that perhaps crowd violence in American sports is a lot more prevalent than people like to think:
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/americansports/comment/0,10160,1660848,00.html
As was previously was mentioned, I agree that this sort fo bevaior happens all over, including America.
I wonder why people get caught up in an outcome of a game where they aren't even playing, usually don't know the players personally and don't have anything to gain (unless they are gambling on the outcome)?
I guess people need something to cling to, when all other things are transient. Sports teams provide an artificial form of belonging?
I dunno.
I wonder why people get caught up in an outcome of a game where they aren't even playing, usually don't know the players personally and don't have anything to gain (unless they are gambling on the outcome)?
I guess people need something to cling to, when all other things are transient. Sports teams provide an artificial form of belonging?
I dunno.
just one tiny thing I thought ;
I don't think it's necessarily accurate to compare Football Hooligans to American Sports fans. Rowdy though they might be...
We all more or less admit, football hooligans are gangs/political/criminal groups etc...
So why not compare them to their real counterparts in the US - gangs/the mafia/etc?
Just as you wouldn't want to be Jewish and walk into a Combat66 pub in Chelsea, nevermind wearing a Hammers shirt or something....
You wouldn't want to be wearing the wrong color in some neighborhoods in LA...
etc
Hooligans use clubs as their excuse for violence, whereas US gangsters use something as trivial as where your neighborhood is - but we all know that's not really *why* they do it....
(Not the hardcore ones anyway)
I don't think it's necessarily accurate to compare Football Hooligans to American Sports fans. Rowdy though they might be...
We all more or less admit, football hooligans are gangs/political/criminal groups etc...
So why not compare them to their real counterparts in the US - gangs/the mafia/etc?
Just as you wouldn't want to be Jewish and walk into a Combat66 pub in Chelsea, nevermind wearing a Hammers shirt or something....
You wouldn't want to be wearing the wrong color in some neighborhoods in LA...
etc
Hooligans use clubs as their excuse for violence, whereas US gangsters use something as trivial as where your neighborhood is - but we all know that's not really *why* they do it....
(Not the hardcore ones anyway)
Alot of street crime is often linked with poverty and frustration to their own lives and alienation to society. If you don't give respect sooner or later the people who want respect will take respect into their own hands.
UK doesn't have a problem with hooliganism. Most European countries and clubs don't. There are only a few which does and often the clubs, and countries which do have problems have other problems apart from football violene problems. Football becomes a place where people who have problems from before can vent out their frustration.
UK doesn't have a problem with hooliganism. Most European countries and clubs don't. There are only a few which does and often the clubs, and countries which do have problems have other problems apart from football violene problems. Football becomes a place where people who have problems from before can vent out their frustration.
I can understand fighting after a disappointing game. American Football, or Base Ball, it didn`t matter. School pride and immaturity drove us to it. We did it in highschool in the US. Our slogan was " We might loose the game, but we won`t loose the fight!" But that was in HIGH SCHOOL! We are talking about mainly adults fighting at games now. That is what I don`t understand.
So today you have Italy and someone else said Poland. Where there is football violence. In both places alot of the violence is connected with the extreme right.
Alot of the extreme right people are often from lower middle class, unimployed people who join in and find others who are in the same situation. I guess in US you don't have gangs who organize themselves and go to sporting arenas like in Europe. So yeah, what you are saying TokyOG I can relate to. American gangs do seem to have a more mature attitude towards sports than hooligans. Where do American gangs hang out anyway?
The fans in Italy have alot of power over the clubs. The Irriducibilly ( I got the name wrong) is like some Roman Empire. They earn money from selling merchandises they have a say in who the team should buy and sell. It is a different culture. It is weird. I don't understand it too well myself. They are organised.
When that said. Norway doesn't have any hooliganism. We have no action create no action maybe that is why we are so terrible in football as we are. haha.
Alot of the extreme right people are often from lower middle class, unimployed people who join in and find others who are in the same situation. I guess in US you don't have gangs who organize themselves and go to sporting arenas like in Europe. So yeah, what you are saying TokyOG I can relate to. American gangs do seem to have a more mature attitude towards sports than hooligans. Where do American gangs hang out anyway?
The fans in Italy have alot of power over the clubs. The Irriducibilly ( I got the name wrong) is like some Roman Empire. They earn money from selling merchandises they have a say in who the team should buy and sell. It is a different culture. It is weird. I don't understand it too well myself. They are organised.
When that said. Norway doesn't have any hooliganism. We have no action create no action maybe that is why we are so terrible in football as we are. haha.
Yeah.. I guess its a combination of testosterone, desperation and nothing better to do with a touch of an instigator in there somewhere. Someone with an agenda that includes starting trouble, influencing others around him. Strong drinks and worse also don`t help.
I have no idea where the American gangs hang out. They don`t go to sports arenas to make trouble. They got all the trouble they can handle right there in the streets. And the American police don`t take no shit either. They shoot first and ask questions later. Zero tolerance. So, the gangs know they have to stay low profile.
I have no idea where the American gangs hang out. They don`t go to sports arenas to make trouble. They got all the trouble they can handle right there in the streets. And the American police don`t take no shit either. They shoot first and ask questions later. Zero tolerance. So, the gangs know they have to stay low profile.
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