Robert R. Riley: (18:27)
Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Some of the questions I have for you were fielded from our division directors, who wanted to also have their input to get you to answer some of these, but let me begin with this one. This isn’t a commercial media. We can afford to tell the full truth about America and the amplitude of American life in all of its facets. In your many travels in your recent years, what would you judge as those parts of America that are least known by foreign audiences that we need to tell them about?
Mike Pompeo : (19:18)
Yeah. It’s a really good question. If I have a chance in a moment where we are away from the formal business of the day, I’ll often ask ambassadors or foreign ministers, “When were you last in the States? What’d you do? Where’d you go see?” The answer is almost always, “I went to New York. I went to Washington. I went to San Francisco. I went to Los Angeles.” The adventure some may have traveled all the way to Boston. Boy, that’s not representative of all of who America is. I’m from Kansas. It’s a different place in so many ways. It’s engaged in different businesses. It’s engaged. It’s government is different. It’s people think about the world in a different way. These stories from places other than the coasts are important and that extends to rural parts of South Carolina, to Appalachia, to folks who live up in Minnesota and along our Northern border along Canada. There were so many different facets of the United States that I think if you asked people around the world, they would only know this place we are here in Washington, or maybe our financial center in New York.
(20:26)
I hope that you all get a chance to tell those other stories. I’d add one last piece. It’s not just geographic. It’s not just where it is. You could find right here in Washington, dozens and dozens of different stories, about different pieces of the things, the institutions, that make America so unique, so special. These things that our founders called, the small platoons, our civic organizations. How many of you are members of the PTA trying to help your kid’s school be just a little bit better? How many of you participate in the church group on Wednesday evenings where you have your chili feed, or you just gather. Those are important parts of American life that have made us so unique and so special. I want people all across the world to see those things because those institutions form bedrock of our nation and they can help their countries too.
Robert R. Riley: (21:14)
Thank you. Mr. Secretary, you’ve made some very eloquent speeches about the relationship between American founding principles and us foreign policy. How would you prioritize those fundamental rights? Some of which you referred to in your remarks, when you, with the limited time with foreign heads of state, want to have a clear message, you’ve been very forthright on freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of… How do you prioritize those, or is the prioritization custom made for the country you’re addressing?
Mike Pompeo : (21:55)
Yeah. Bob, it certainly does vary by where you are and the situation that you find that government and frankly, the traditions of that country. The inalienable rights commission led by professor Mary Anne Glendon and Peter Berkowitz at the state department was a great, it’s a great report. It’s 50 pages. I’d urge you to go read it. You’ll agree with some of it. Some you may not. What it tried to do was to take this human rights project from the 20th century that has just fallen away. It lost its capacity to understand the things that were contained in our founding about how human rights are formed. It moved away even from the universal declaration of human rights. What I wanted to do in that was to reground American foreign policy and how we thought about human rights. I think the report captures that pretty well.
(22:48)
Your point about religious freedom and the capacity to speak freely, two core rights that if a nation gets it wrong, it will be less secure. It will be less prosperous. Its people will be less whole. We spent a lot of time talking about those issues around the world. We’ve made progress in certain places, other places we’ve not, but it’s important that American leaders, not only in the secretary of state, but all of us, acknowledged those shortcomings when we speak with foreign leaders and get them headed in that better direction for their people. I’m proud of the work we’ve done in this regard. These principles matter. Their execution implementation is complex because foreign policy always is. There are competing priorities, but America can never walk away from those central principles and understandings. We know the difference between rights respecting countries and those that aren’t. We have an obligation to call each of them precisely what they are.
Robert R. Riley: (23:51)
Now, as you all know, we’re at the cusp of a change in administrations, uncertain foreign policy issues. There seems to have formed a bipartisan consensus. For instance, perhaps China, on both sides of the aisle, is seen as the principal challenge to the United States today. Are there others, North Korea, Venezuela, Iran? On which of these do you expect some continuity with the new administration and where do you perhaps see what may come as the biggest changes?
Mike Pompeo : (24:27)
It’s an important question. Leaders always want to understand that when you make a commitment to them, that it will survive. We have elections every two years here, federal elections. We have presidential elections every four years. Look. Your point about the threat from the Chinese communist party, I think, is right. President Trump rightly identified this when he started campaigning back in 2015 as the singular threat to the centrality of Western thought in the world, the idea that we’re going to have a rules-based system respected property rights and human dignity. China is singular in the threat it poses to those things. I do think there’s a consensus there. I’ve worked with Democrats on many important issues, on issues in Hong Kong and issues, as I referred to the Wiggers in St John and the atrocities taking place there. I do hope that stays the same.
Mike Pompeo : (25:16)
I hope too, even in the Middle East, even where the previous administration had a different approach with respect to the Islamic Republic of Iran, it’s not 2015. What has taken place in the Middle East and these last four years, whether that’s the efforts we have put to constrain the theocracy and the kleptocrats in charge in Iran, the work we have done with the Abraham Accords, the work that we’ve done to recognize that the fundamental understandings of Israel as a nation that has a right to exist. Its capital is in Jerusalem. It is the home of the Jewish people there. Those are things that I believe will be lasting because I think the people of those nations want them to last. I hope that the next administration will continue to build on them in a way that continues to build out peace and prosperity among all the nations in the Middle East.I’m hopeful that, that will take place.
Robert R. Riley: (26:05)
I noticed over the weekend, you signed a joint declaration with four other foreign ministers, Australia, UK, New Zealand, regarding the recent arrests in Hong Kong. You also removed the restraints on high level diplomatic contact contacts between the United States and Taiwan. Apparently the US ambassador of the UN will be in Taiwan soon. What do you expect to accomplish with this flurry?
Mike Pompeo : (26:40) Yeah. Well, flurry, I find funny.
Robert R. Riley: (26:45) I should have chosen another word.
Mike Pompeo : (26:47)
Yes. No, I get it. I wish these things had been [crosstalk 00:26:49] a long time ago. These weren’t rushed. These were considered efforts that we made and their important part of the strategy that we’ve laid out with respect to, how to protect and preserve American freedoms of the challenge that the Chinese communist party presents. Look. One of the core problems, I gave some remarks where I talked about… (27:03)
… this party presents. Look, one of the core problems, I gave some remarks where I talked about China and said, “No matter what it is they say, we must distrust and verify.” And you referred to the arrest of the some 50 people in Hong Kong. The Chinese Communist Party made a promise to the people of Hong Kong, and they walked away from it. The Chinese Communist Party has a commitment, that set of understandings we have with respect to Taiwan. We need to hold the parties accountable to those commitments as well.
(27:29)
The Chinese Communist Party promised President Obama they wouldn’t harm the islands in the South China Sea, and they turned around and did it, and there was almost no cost imposed. We have attempted to deliver a clear understanding of the requirements that we have for the Chinese Communist Party and how it should behave, that aren’t frankly very different from what we expect of any nation, with respect to how they interact with the United States. And we do that because we have a responsibility to preserve and protect security and prosperity for the American people. Our policy with respect to the Chinese Communist Party has furthered that, and this will be a long challenge. The Chinese Communist Party has a clear intent for hegemonic dominance, and we have an obligation, a responsibility to the American people, and frankly to freedom-loving people around the world, to make sure that that is not the world that our children and grandchildren live in.
Robert R. Riley: (28:22)
It’s interesting, in meeting with the division directors of Voice of America, how frequently in those meetings, the name of China comes up. When I ask them, “What’s on the horizon? What are you noticing?” It’s China. Latin America, China. East Africa, China. And it’s not simply the Belt and Road Initiative. It’s their information strategy. How they get affiliates in those regions of the world, how they feed them free stuff, and their, as you know, a whole of government approach. Now, the United States isn’t whole of government, but Voice of America is here to do our part through our bureaus and through our reporting. What do you think we can do better to help highlight the dangers these things represent when seen together, rather than as a separate series of broaches?
Mike Pompeo : (29:22)
Bob, this challenge is, in fact, comprehensive. Our administration began by working on the economic side of this, right? The President placed tariffs on Chinese goods. He’s tried to stop intellectual property theft, denying tens of millions of jobs in the United States of America, because they would steal our information, take it back to China, build it, and then dump it here in the United States. It’s information. You talked about that. This is ongoing.
(29:48)
Take the issue of the Wuhan virus. It has now, I understand the Chinese Communist Party is now going to permit the World Health Organization to go in and find out where this all began, but it took months and months of effort to do that. We are now more than a year on. We still don’t have access to important information about how the virus began. It’s important for health and safety, and to make sure that something like this doesn’t come out of China again.
(30:13)
Your team can report these things, report these facts. Your point about it being a global phenomenon, I have a bureau. I have a China desk. I have a East Asia Pacific Bureau. We have an Indo-Pacific strategy, but every one of my ambassadors and chiefs of mission understands that China presents a challenge in their country, wherever they may be. In Africa, and Latin America, in Southeast Asia for sure. And our team on the ground is working to protect American security from the Chinese Communist Party in the country that they have been assigned to. I hope your reporters, no matter where they find themselves, if they are in South Africa, or in Morocco, or wherever they are, observe the activities of the Chinese Communist Party inside of their country and how it impacts the people of those countries as well.
Robert R. Riley: (31:03)
If I may ask a last question, this one more related to Russia, the United States seems to be shrinking its footprint in Africa. So is France. Russia is increasing its. Is this the result of a judgment on the part of the United States, that disorder on the African continent is less of a problem or a less of a threat to our interests? Or how would you-
Mike Pompeo : (31:29)
So the forces, the disposition that the DoD has made has really been about the counter-terrorism fight more broadly. How is it that we allocate US resources to keep the Homeland safe? So the decisions the President has made with respect to Afghanistan and the Middle East broadly, Syria, you talk about North Africa as well, has been to allocate the capacity of the United States to preserve and protect the Homeland.
(31:55)
I’m always mindful, and it’s easy to write about, if you just focus on troop numbers alone, if you say the United States used to have 1,000 people, now they only have 800, or they used to have 800, now they only have 400, you may well be missing America’s capacity to preserve and protect itself. I was the Director of the CIA. I know the other tools and capabilities that we can bring. They are unseen. They don’t get reported from the podium at the Department of Defense, but the American people should know President Trump has been unambiguous about getting it right, making sure we put fewer of our young men and women in harm’s way, but never giving up the responsibility we have to ensure that terrorism, at least the risk that a terror act takes place and hurts Americans, whether they’re here in the United States or elsewhere in the world as well.
Robert R. Riley: (32:43)
Great. Mr. Secretary, I can’t thank you enough for gracing us with your presence today. It was very kind of you to make the trip, and it’s deeply appreciated by me and by everyone else here. Please join me in a round of applause for the Secretary.
Mike Pompeo : (32:57)Thank you. It was a pleasure. Thank you all very much. Thank you, Bob.
Robert R. Riley: (32:57)Nice to see you.
Mike Pompeo : (32:57)Thank you, my friend. Thank you.
Robert R. Riley: (32:57)[crosstalk 00:33:02].
Speaker 2: (32:57)[crosstalk 00:33:02].
https:/
Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Some of the questions I have for you were fielded from our division directors, who wanted to also have their input to get you to answer some of these, but let me begin with this one. This isn’t a commercial media. We can afford to tell the full truth about America and the amplitude of American life in all of its facets. In your many travels in your recent years, what would you judge as those parts of America that are least known by foreign audiences that we need to tell them about?
Mike Pompeo : (19:18)
Yeah. It’s a really good question. If I have a chance in a moment where we are away from the formal business of the day, I’ll often ask ambassadors or foreign ministers, “When were you last in the States? What’d you do? Where’d you go see?” The answer is almost always, “I went to New York. I went to Washington. I went to San Francisco. I went to Los Angeles.” The adventure some may have traveled all the way to Boston. Boy, that’s not representative of all of who America is. I’m from Kansas. It’s a different place in so many ways. It’s engaged in different businesses. It’s engaged. It’s government is different. It’s people think about the world in a different way. These stories from places other than the coasts are important and that extends to rural parts of South Carolina, to Appalachia, to folks who live up in Minnesota and along our Northern border along Canada. There were so many different facets of the United States that I think if you asked people around the world, they would only know this place we are here in Washington, or maybe our financial center in New York.
(20:26)
I hope that you all get a chance to tell those other stories. I’d add one last piece. It’s not just geographic. It’s not just where it is. You could find right here in Washington, dozens and dozens of different stories, about different pieces of the things, the institutions, that make America so unique, so special. These things that our founders called, the small platoons, our civic organizations. How many of you are members of the PTA trying to help your kid’s school be just a little bit better? How many of you participate in the church group on Wednesday evenings where you have your chili feed, or you just gather. Those are important parts of American life that have made us so unique and so special. I want people all across the world to see those things because those institutions form bedrock of our nation and they can help their countries too.
Robert R. Riley: (21:14)
Thank you. Mr. Secretary, you’ve made some very eloquent speeches about the relationship between American founding principles and us foreign policy. How would you prioritize those fundamental rights? Some of which you referred to in your remarks, when you, with the limited time with foreign heads of state, want to have a clear message, you’ve been very forthright on freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of… How do you prioritize those, or is the prioritization custom made for the country you’re addressing?
Mike Pompeo : (21:55)
Yeah. Bob, it certainly does vary by where you are and the situation that you find that government and frankly, the traditions of that country. The inalienable rights commission led by professor Mary Anne Glendon and Peter Berkowitz at the state department was a great, it’s a great report. It’s 50 pages. I’d urge you to go read it. You’ll agree with some of it. Some you may not. What it tried to do was to take this human rights project from the 20th century that has just fallen away. It lost its capacity to understand the things that were contained in our founding about how human rights are formed. It moved away even from the universal declaration of human rights. What I wanted to do in that was to reground American foreign policy and how we thought about human rights. I think the report captures that pretty well.
(22:48)
Your point about religious freedom and the capacity to speak freely, two core rights that if a nation gets it wrong, it will be less secure. It will be less prosperous. Its people will be less whole. We spent a lot of time talking about those issues around the world. We’ve made progress in certain places, other places we’ve not, but it’s important that American leaders, not only in the secretary of state, but all of us, acknowledged those shortcomings when we speak with foreign leaders and get them headed in that better direction for their people. I’m proud of the work we’ve done in this regard. These principles matter. Their execution implementation is complex because foreign policy always is. There are competing priorities, but America can never walk away from those central principles and understandings. We know the difference between rights respecting countries and those that aren’t. We have an obligation to call each of them precisely what they are.
Robert R. Riley: (23:51)
Now, as you all know, we’re at the cusp of a change in administrations, uncertain foreign policy issues. There seems to have formed a bipartisan consensus. For instance, perhaps China, on both sides of the aisle, is seen as the principal challenge to the United States today. Are there others, North Korea, Venezuela, Iran? On which of these do you expect some continuity with the new administration and where do you perhaps see what may come as the biggest changes?
Mike Pompeo : (24:27)
It’s an important question. Leaders always want to understand that when you make a commitment to them, that it will survive. We have elections every two years here, federal elections. We have presidential elections every four years. Look. Your point about the threat from the Chinese communist party, I think, is right. President Trump rightly identified this when he started campaigning back in 2015 as the singular threat to the centrality of Western thought in the world, the idea that we’re going to have a rules-based system respected property rights and human dignity. China is singular in the threat it poses to those things. I do think there’s a consensus there. I’ve worked with Democrats on many important issues, on issues in Hong Kong and issues, as I referred to the Wiggers in St John and the atrocities taking place there. I do hope that stays the same.
Mike Pompeo : (25:16)
I hope too, even in the Middle East, even where the previous administration had a different approach with respect to the Islamic Republic of Iran, it’s not 2015. What has taken place in the Middle East and these last four years, whether that’s the efforts we have put to constrain the theocracy and the kleptocrats in charge in Iran, the work we have done with the Abraham Accords, the work that we’ve done to recognize that the fundamental understandings of Israel as a nation that has a right to exist. Its capital is in Jerusalem. It is the home of the Jewish people there. Those are things that I believe will be lasting because I think the people of those nations want them to last. I hope that the next administration will continue to build on them in a way that continues to build out peace and prosperity among all the nations in the Middle East.I’m hopeful that, that will take place.
Robert R. Riley: (26:05)
I noticed over the weekend, you signed a joint declaration with four other foreign ministers, Australia, UK, New Zealand, regarding the recent arrests in Hong Kong. You also removed the restraints on high level diplomatic contact contacts between the United States and Taiwan. Apparently the US ambassador of the UN will be in Taiwan soon. What do you expect to accomplish with this flurry?
Mike Pompeo : (26:40) Yeah. Well, flurry, I find funny.
Robert R. Riley: (26:45) I should have chosen another word.
Mike Pompeo : (26:47)
Yes. No, I get it. I wish these things had been [crosstalk 00:26:49] a long time ago. These weren’t rushed. These were considered efforts that we made and their important part of the strategy that we’ve laid out with respect to, how to protect and preserve American freedoms of the challenge that the Chinese communist party presents. Look. One of the core problems, I gave some remarks where I talked about… (27:03)
… this party presents. Look, one of the core problems, I gave some remarks where I talked about China and said, “No matter what it is they say, we must distrust and verify.” And you referred to the arrest of the some 50 people in Hong Kong. The Chinese Communist Party made a promise to the people of Hong Kong, and they walked away from it. The Chinese Communist Party has a commitment, that set of understandings we have with respect to Taiwan. We need to hold the parties accountable to those commitments as well.
(27:29)
The Chinese Communist Party promised President Obama they wouldn’t harm the islands in the South China Sea, and they turned around and did it, and there was almost no cost imposed. We have attempted to deliver a clear understanding of the requirements that we have for the Chinese Communist Party and how it should behave, that aren’t frankly very different from what we expect of any nation, with respect to how they interact with the United States. And we do that because we have a responsibility to preserve and protect security and prosperity for the American people. Our policy with respect to the Chinese Communist Party has furthered that, and this will be a long challenge. The Chinese Communist Party has a clear intent for hegemonic dominance, and we have an obligation, a responsibility to the American people, and frankly to freedom-loving people around the world, to make sure that that is not the world that our children and grandchildren live in.
Robert R. Riley: (28:22)
It’s interesting, in meeting with the division directors of Voice of America, how frequently in those meetings, the name of China comes up. When I ask them, “What’s on the horizon? What are you noticing?” It’s China. Latin America, China. East Africa, China. And it’s not simply the Belt and Road Initiative. It’s their information strategy. How they get affiliates in those regions of the world, how they feed them free stuff, and their, as you know, a whole of government approach. Now, the United States isn’t whole of government, but Voice of America is here to do our part through our bureaus and through our reporting. What do you think we can do better to help highlight the dangers these things represent when seen together, rather than as a separate series of broaches?
Mike Pompeo : (29:22)
Bob, this challenge is, in fact, comprehensive. Our administration began by working on the economic side of this, right? The President placed tariffs on Chinese goods. He’s tried to stop intellectual property theft, denying tens of millions of jobs in the United States of America, because they would steal our information, take it back to China, build it, and then dump it here in the United States. It’s information. You talked about that. This is ongoing.
(29:48)
Take the issue of the Wuhan virus. It has now, I understand the Chinese Communist Party is now going to permit the World Health Organization to go in and find out where this all began, but it took months and months of effort to do that. We are now more than a year on. We still don’t have access to important information about how the virus began. It’s important for health and safety, and to make sure that something like this doesn’t come out of China again.
(30:13)
Your team can report these things, report these facts. Your point about it being a global phenomenon, I have a bureau. I have a China desk. I have a East Asia Pacific Bureau. We have an Indo-Pacific strategy, but every one of my ambassadors and chiefs of mission understands that China presents a challenge in their country, wherever they may be. In Africa, and Latin America, in Southeast Asia for sure. And our team on the ground is working to protect American security from the Chinese Communist Party in the country that they have been assigned to. I hope your reporters, no matter where they find themselves, if they are in South Africa, or in Morocco, or wherever they are, observe the activities of the Chinese Communist Party inside of their country and how it impacts the people of those countries as well.
Robert R. Riley: (31:03)
If I may ask a last question, this one more related to Russia, the United States seems to be shrinking its footprint in Africa. So is France. Russia is increasing its. Is this the result of a judgment on the part of the United States, that disorder on the African continent is less of a problem or a less of a threat to our interests? Or how would you-
Mike Pompeo : (31:29)
So the forces, the disposition that the DoD has made has really been about the counter-terrorism fight more broadly. How is it that we allocate US resources to keep the Homeland safe? So the decisions the President has made with respect to Afghanistan and the Middle East broadly, Syria, you talk about North Africa as well, has been to allocate the capacity of the United States to preserve and protect the Homeland.
(31:55)
I’m always mindful, and it’s easy to write about, if you just focus on troop numbers alone, if you say the United States used to have 1,000 people, now they only have 800, or they used to have 800, now they only have 400, you may well be missing America’s capacity to preserve and protect itself. I was the Director of the CIA. I know the other tools and capabilities that we can bring. They are unseen. They don’t get reported from the podium at the Department of Defense, but the American people should know President Trump has been unambiguous about getting it right, making sure we put fewer of our young men and women in harm’s way, but never giving up the responsibility we have to ensure that terrorism, at least the risk that a terror act takes place and hurts Americans, whether they’re here in the United States or elsewhere in the world as well.
Robert R. Riley: (32:43)
Great. Mr. Secretary, I can’t thank you enough for gracing us with your presence today. It was very kind of you to make the trip, and it’s deeply appreciated by me and by everyone else here. Please join me in a round of applause for the Secretary.
Mike Pompeo : (32:57)Thank you. It was a pleasure. Thank you all very much. Thank you, Bob.
Robert R. Riley: (32:57)Nice to see you.
Mike Pompeo : (32:57)Thank you, my friend. Thank you.
Robert R. Riley: (32:57)[crosstalk 00:33:02].
Speaker 2: (32:57)[crosstalk 00:33:02].
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