FREDERICK KEMPE: Thank you, Secretary Clinton. China’s come up several times in this conversation. It seems to be the kind of peer competitor of the sort that we’ve never experienced before across so many realms—whether it’s technology, or economy, or military, et cetera, et cetera. The Trump administration has been quite outspoken, has made this a huge priority, particularly in the last weeks. They point to the past, saying that the US has ignored China for too long, and now we need to stand up. For the next president of the United States, it seems like we have an attitude, but we don’t have the strategy. What could that strategy contain?
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: Yeah. Well I think that, you know, we’ve gone through a number of phases with China, ever since, you know, the Nixon opening to China. And for a number of decades, it was certainly in America’s interest and the world’s interest, I would argue, to support China’s economic rise, to work to include China in the international order, in all kinds of institutional ways. But I think any relationship has to be constantly reevaluated. And as we’ve seen with Xi Jinping, a lot of the aggressive nature of China’s ambitions now are very clear militarily, and strategically, economically, internationally.
And so you require a clear and consistent approach to China, which we have not seen under the Trump administration. There have been a series of economic actions taken, not particularly effective from what I have seen, and a lot of name-calling. But in the meantime, China has extended its road-and-belt program and increased its influence, not only across Asia but into Africa, into the South Pacific, even into Europe, and certainly Latin America. China is not only building infrastructure nationally, but through a competitive infrastructure bank that it has set up.
So you see with China, they’re playing the long game. And as I say, you can’t blame a country for acting in its own self-interest. We can question ourselves for not being more effective in how we deal with China’s new, more aggressive, ambitious approach. So I think it’s important to stress that the United States is an Asian power, a Pacific power. I had those conversations even when I was secretary of state with my Chinese counterparts—that we will and intend to protect the South China Sea from colonization by Chinese military interests, that we stand with our friend and allies in Asia, East Asia, South Asia, in their efforts to protect their territorial integrity, that we should get back into the business of competing for hearts, minds, and infrastructure in different parts of the world because it does make a difference.
We did a tremendous job under President George W. Bush in fighting the AIDS epidemic in Africa, and spent many billions of dollars saving lives and providing treatment while China was building soccer stadiums and parliament buildings. But we were competing, and we had a really strong case to make that we were standing up for, you know, the human rights and the health care and the freedom of people in Africa. And basically, with Trump as president we are absent. We are absent symbolically and we are absent substantively.
So I think there’s a lot we can do to rebuild our presence. We also should not shy away from continuing to speak out about human rights in China—about the Uighurs, about the crackdown in Hong Kong. I think there’s a real audience within China and around the world for the United States regaining its voice when it comes to human rights. So there’s a real opportunity here, Fred, that I think that a Biden-Harris administration would quickly seize to try to get our relationship with China back on a steadier, more predictable course, and reassert America’s standing and leadership in Asia and beyond.
FREDERICK KEMPE: Secretary Clinton, where does Europe stand in this? Let me take you back to 2013. The Atlantic Council gave you its highest honor, the Distinguished Leadership Award. You were introduced by the Republican Henry Kissinger, just to underscore our bipartisan/nonpartisan credentials, and you spoke about the centrality of the Atlantic relationship in energy, in trade, and regarding Russia. But now China is front and center. You said America’s future is bound up in the future of Europe. Does that remain the case now, or are we just being nostalgic looking back at the transatlantic relationship? Or what role do you think it has in this very uncertain future we’re going in?
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: No, I don’t think it’s nostalgia at all. I think it’s realpolitik, to use a term associated with Kissinger. (Laughs.)
I think one of the great advantages the United States historically has had, which unfortunately we have squandered in the last three and a half years, is our network of alliances. And there is none that has been more consequential and long-lasting than the Atlantic alliance.
And I believe strongly that democracy is under attack around the world. Governance has not lived up to what people living in democracies have every right to expect. We have a lot of work to do within the Atlantic alliance to rebuild the democratic pillars of our nations and our interrelationships. I still believe there is an incredibly important role for NATO. The aggressiveness of Russia, as we’ve seen it in Georgia, Ukraine, the kind of activity we’re seeing currently in [Belarus], and the kind of threats that Russia has posed to democracies from, you know, the Baltics to the Balkans, there is a great deal of work to do between Europe, the United States, and Canada in once again strengthening our democratic alliance and taking a hard look at where we have fallen short. Trying to support—as, you know, the EU has tried to do—the democratization within countries, which as we’ve seen in Hungary and Turkey and elsewhere, even, you know, NATO members, has been a bit disappointing to say the least.
So, yes, the transatlantic alliance should remain at the core of American foreign-policy vision and objectives. And I would hope that one of the first things internationally that a new administration does is to reaffirm the centrality of that Atlantic alliance.
FREDERICK KEMPE: We’re getting a number of questions in from Twitter. Many of them circle around the whole issue of civil society, your “It Takes a Village,” and particularly with Black Lives Matter. A question I would ask is the connection between that domestic health and international policy. Dean Acheson, one of our Atlantic Council founders, one of your predecessors as secretary of state, actually, wrote a letter into the amicus brief for Brown versus Board of Education in the early 1950s and he said that racial discrimination, “jeopardizes the effective maintenance of our moral leadership” among “the free and democratic nations of the world.” How do you view what’s happening right now in the country and civil society? And how does that interact with our international route?
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: Well, I think that this is a moment of great moral reckoning over structural racism in our country. And I’m hopeful that real change will occur. The young people leading the Black Lives Matter movement, other young people who are engaged in peaceful protests, are certainly crying out for changes in many institutions and attitudes toward race and ethnicity and religion and gender in America. And it is a very serious internal threat to our way of life and to our unity. But as Dean Acheson said all those years ago, it also impacts America’s image and leadership abroad.
You know, during the 2016 campaign, Fred, one of the Russian tactics that we learned about afterward was to sow racial discord, to create phony events, to have a heavy online presence that really stoked racial animosity and fear. The Russians have been at that a very long time, as a recent excellent book by David Shimer called “Rigged” lays out. The Russians, under the Soviet Union and now the Russian Federation under Putin, have always tried to highlight racial strife and inequities in the United States as a way of undermining our aspirations for democracy, our values about moving toward a more perfect union. They’ve taken any opportunity they could to try to paint a much darker picture of the United States.
So I think both—and first probably most importantly—we’ve got to do better internally ourselves. There have been some important legislative changes in some states and cities, and there’s a good piece of legislation called the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act that actually passed on a bipartisan basis in the House of Representatives to try to deal first and foremost with injustice in policing and in the law-enforcement community and in the criminal-justice institutions, but we’ve got to go further than that. We have to be honest about the biases that often influence how we treat each other, view each other, whether or not we’re willing to make room in more ways in society for more people to have a real shot at their own opportunity and better future for themselves.
And so I hope that this moment is not lost. I hope that the kind of campaign Trump is now running, which is a very divisive one, is repudiated in our election, and that we can try to, you know, heal the country by actually taking specific steps to remedy the lingering and deeply and profoundly sad injustices that we still live with.
FREDERICK KEMPE: So not to let the moment get lost, heal the country for sure, but at the same time understand that there are foreign actors who will try to exploit our divisions. And so I think that’s a really good way to look at it.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: Right.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: Yeah. Well I think that, you know, we’ve gone through a number of phases with China, ever since, you know, the Nixon opening to China. And for a number of decades, it was certainly in America’s interest and the world’s interest, I would argue, to support China’s economic rise, to work to include China in the international order, in all kinds of institutional ways. But I think any relationship has to be constantly reevaluated. And as we’ve seen with Xi Jinping, a lot of the aggressive nature of China’s ambitions now are very clear militarily, and strategically, economically, internationally.
And so you require a clear and consistent approach to China, which we have not seen under the Trump administration. There have been a series of economic actions taken, not particularly effective from what I have seen, and a lot of name-calling. But in the meantime, China has extended its road-and-belt program and increased its influence, not only across Asia but into Africa, into the South Pacific, even into Europe, and certainly Latin America. China is not only building infrastructure nationally, but through a competitive infrastructure bank that it has set up.
So you see with China, they’re playing the long game. And as I say, you can’t blame a country for acting in its own self-interest. We can question ourselves for not being more effective in how we deal with China’s new, more aggressive, ambitious approach. So I think it’s important to stress that the United States is an Asian power, a Pacific power. I had those conversations even when I was secretary of state with my Chinese counterparts—that we will and intend to protect the South China Sea from colonization by Chinese military interests, that we stand with our friend and allies in Asia, East Asia, South Asia, in their efforts to protect their territorial integrity, that we should get back into the business of competing for hearts, minds, and infrastructure in different parts of the world because it does make a difference.
We did a tremendous job under President George W. Bush in fighting the AIDS epidemic in Africa, and spent many billions of dollars saving lives and providing treatment while China was building soccer stadiums and parliament buildings. But we were competing, and we had a really strong case to make that we were standing up for, you know, the human rights and the health care and the freedom of people in Africa. And basically, with Trump as president we are absent. We are absent symbolically and we are absent substantively.
So I think there’s a lot we can do to rebuild our presence. We also should not shy away from continuing to speak out about human rights in China—about the Uighurs, about the crackdown in Hong Kong. I think there’s a real audience within China and around the world for the United States regaining its voice when it comes to human rights. So there’s a real opportunity here, Fred, that I think that a Biden-Harris administration would quickly seize to try to get our relationship with China back on a steadier, more predictable course, and reassert America’s standing and leadership in Asia and beyond.
FREDERICK KEMPE: Secretary Clinton, where does Europe stand in this? Let me take you back to 2013. The Atlantic Council gave you its highest honor, the Distinguished Leadership Award. You were introduced by the Republican Henry Kissinger, just to underscore our bipartisan/nonpartisan credentials, and you spoke about the centrality of the Atlantic relationship in energy, in trade, and regarding Russia. But now China is front and center. You said America’s future is bound up in the future of Europe. Does that remain the case now, or are we just being nostalgic looking back at the transatlantic relationship? Or what role do you think it has in this very uncertain future we’re going in?
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: No, I don’t think it’s nostalgia at all. I think it’s realpolitik, to use a term associated with Kissinger. (Laughs.)
I think one of the great advantages the United States historically has had, which unfortunately we have squandered in the last three and a half years, is our network of alliances. And there is none that has been more consequential and long-lasting than the Atlantic alliance.
And I believe strongly that democracy is under attack around the world. Governance has not lived up to what people living in democracies have every right to expect. We have a lot of work to do within the Atlantic alliance to rebuild the democratic pillars of our nations and our interrelationships. I still believe there is an incredibly important role for NATO. The aggressiveness of Russia, as we’ve seen it in Georgia, Ukraine, the kind of activity we’re seeing currently in [Belarus], and the kind of threats that Russia has posed to democracies from, you know, the Baltics to the Balkans, there is a great deal of work to do between Europe, the United States, and Canada in once again strengthening our democratic alliance and taking a hard look at where we have fallen short. Trying to support—as, you know, the EU has tried to do—the democratization within countries, which as we’ve seen in Hungary and Turkey and elsewhere, even, you know, NATO members, has been a bit disappointing to say the least.
So, yes, the transatlantic alliance should remain at the core of American foreign-policy vision and objectives. And I would hope that one of the first things internationally that a new administration does is to reaffirm the centrality of that Atlantic alliance.
FREDERICK KEMPE: We’re getting a number of questions in from Twitter. Many of them circle around the whole issue of civil society, your “It Takes a Village,” and particularly with Black Lives Matter. A question I would ask is the connection between that domestic health and international policy. Dean Acheson, one of our Atlantic Council founders, one of your predecessors as secretary of state, actually, wrote a letter into the amicus brief for Brown versus Board of Education in the early 1950s and he said that racial discrimination, “jeopardizes the effective maintenance of our moral leadership” among “the free and democratic nations of the world.” How do you view what’s happening right now in the country and civil society? And how does that interact with our international route?
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: Well, I think that this is a moment of great moral reckoning over structural racism in our country. And I’m hopeful that real change will occur. The young people leading the Black Lives Matter movement, other young people who are engaged in peaceful protests, are certainly crying out for changes in many institutions and attitudes toward race and ethnicity and religion and gender in America. And it is a very serious internal threat to our way of life and to our unity. But as Dean Acheson said all those years ago, it also impacts America’s image and leadership abroad.
You know, during the 2016 campaign, Fred, one of the Russian tactics that we learned about afterward was to sow racial discord, to create phony events, to have a heavy online presence that really stoked racial animosity and fear. The Russians have been at that a very long time, as a recent excellent book by David Shimer called “Rigged” lays out. The Russians, under the Soviet Union and now the Russian Federation under Putin, have always tried to highlight racial strife and inequities in the United States as a way of undermining our aspirations for democracy, our values about moving toward a more perfect union. They’ve taken any opportunity they could to try to paint a much darker picture of the United States.
So I think both—and first probably most importantly—we’ve got to do better internally ourselves. There have been some important legislative changes in some states and cities, and there’s a good piece of legislation called the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act that actually passed on a bipartisan basis in the House of Representatives to try to deal first and foremost with injustice in policing and in the law-enforcement community and in the criminal-justice institutions, but we’ve got to go further than that. We have to be honest about the biases that often influence how we treat each other, view each other, whether or not we’re willing to make room in more ways in society for more people to have a real shot at their own opportunity and better future for themselves.
And so I hope that this moment is not lost. I hope that the kind of campaign Trump is now running, which is a very divisive one, is repudiated in our election, and that we can try to, you know, heal the country by actually taking specific steps to remedy the lingering and deeply and profoundly sad injustices that we still live with.
FREDERICK KEMPE: So not to let the moment get lost, heal the country for sure, but at the same time understand that there are foreign actors who will try to exploit our divisions. And so I think that’s a really good way to look at it.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: Right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ウィスパリング同時通訳研究会 更新情報
-
最新のアンケート
-
まだ何もありません
-
ウィスパリング同時通訳研究会のメンバーはこんなコミュニティにも参加しています
人気コミュニティランキング
- 1位
- 楽天イーグルス
- 31951人
- 2位
- 広島東洋カープ
- 55343人
- 3位
- 千葉 ロッテマリーンズ
- 37148人