I dont know exactly where I am going with this...I just need feed back...
Is it just me, or is there a huge LACK of respect or realization about the reality of being physically attcked in Japan?
Hmmm, For example, I have noticed that alot of people will get heated and attack verbally and then are completely shocked, when they get punched in the teeth....
I have not done any street fighting here per se, its one of the reasons I love Tokyo, but....I feel like alot of Japanese, especially young Japanese (into hip hop culture, club scenes etc) just have no frame of reference for the reality of being attacked physically.
This is not an issue of who is tough or whatever, I know alot of really tough Japanese men (more than you guys probably do), this is just about escalation of conflict and whether anyone else has noticed this and been...a little annoyed by it.
Sorry...this isnt particularly coherent....I am in fact, intoxicated at this time
Is it just me, or is there a huge LACK of respect or realization about the reality of being physically attcked in Japan?
Hmmm, For example, I have noticed that alot of people will get heated and attack verbally and then are completely shocked, when they get punched in the teeth....
I have not done any street fighting here per se, its one of the reasons I love Tokyo, but....I feel like alot of Japanese, especially young Japanese (into hip hop culture, club scenes etc) just have no frame of reference for the reality of being attacked physically.
This is not an issue of who is tough or whatever, I know alot of really tough Japanese men (more than you guys probably do), this is just about escalation of conflict and whether anyone else has noticed this and been...a little annoyed by it.
Sorry...this isnt particularly coherent....I am in fact, intoxicated at this time
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コメント(38)
I think it takes alot for a conflict to escalate into physical attacks in Japan, unless of course, the person you are talking to is a drunkard or something. You'd need to really really piss someone off to make it happen. I guess it's just not the natural course of things. And that's a good thing. I really respect Japanese culture for not resorting to violence so easily. I just hope that you aren't going around punching people unexpectedly in the face Archangel because that ain't cool.
I've never had a punch up with a Japanese guy so I don't know....but....
>I feel like alot of Japanese, especially young Japanese (into hip hop culture, club scenes etc) just have no frame of reference for the reality of being attacked physically.
I think Japanese girls have a good frame of reference, as every Japanese girlfriend I had said that their Japanese boyfriends would hit them in arguments etc...from what they told me this could vary from grabbing vigorously to full on on blows - but it sounded like (again from what they told me) it's pretty normal for young Japanese men to hit their girlfriends in arguments and so on.
I don't know, but I'd say that Japanese girls definitely know more about the threat of physcial harm than the sun-tanned peacocks walking around in Shibuya....
Definitely agree with Archanagel and 新生マーキー that violence not being so prevalent in Tokyo (Japan?) is a good thing though. No matter how annoying all the handbag, pushy-pushy, shit talking is....
I'm not sure, but perhaps the fact that in the west we can't/don't want to rely on the Police is important - and so you got to learn to protect/police yourself.
Most my male friends from back home growing up all had a big goal of getting muscular, and their reason was "so I can fuck anyone up who fucks with me/so no-one fucks with me" etc this was inner city England so going to a pub on Friday night usually meant you're going to have to have a fight at some point about something with somebody - you know how it works with English pissheads....
Anyway, I doubt any Japanese men trying to buff up are doing it for that reason....they are either pro-fighters, body-builders, or want to be healthy etc. That might just reinforce the fact that getting into fights over here isn't a concern for the average guy...
But I think your average westerner isn't happy to get into a knuckle up either - and most people who can't fight are the ones talking the most shit all the time anyway. That's why they talk shit perhaps, to avoid fighting...people who can fight just smack you up, no words.
That must be the same in Tokyo, no?
>I feel like alot of Japanese, especially young Japanese (into hip hop culture, club scenes etc) just have no frame of reference for the reality of being attacked physically.
I think Japanese girls have a good frame of reference, as every Japanese girlfriend I had said that their Japanese boyfriends would hit them in arguments etc...from what they told me this could vary from grabbing vigorously to full on on blows - but it sounded like (again from what they told me) it's pretty normal for young Japanese men to hit their girlfriends in arguments and so on.
I don't know, but I'd say that Japanese girls definitely know more about the threat of physcial harm than the sun-tanned peacocks walking around in Shibuya....
Definitely agree with Archanagel and 新生マーキー that violence not being so prevalent in Tokyo (Japan?) is a good thing though. No matter how annoying all the handbag, pushy-pushy, shit talking is....
I'm not sure, but perhaps the fact that in the west we can't/don't want to rely on the Police is important - and so you got to learn to protect/police yourself.
Most my male friends from back home growing up all had a big goal of getting muscular, and their reason was "so I can fuck anyone up who fucks with me/so no-one fucks with me" etc this was inner city England so going to a pub on Friday night usually meant you're going to have to have a fight at some point about something with somebody - you know how it works with English pissheads....
Anyway, I doubt any Japanese men trying to buff up are doing it for that reason....they are either pro-fighters, body-builders, or want to be healthy etc. That might just reinforce the fact that getting into fights over here isn't a concern for the average guy...
But I think your average westerner isn't happy to get into a knuckle up either - and most people who can't fight are the ones talking the most shit all the time anyway. That's why they talk shit perhaps, to avoid fighting...people who can fight just smack you up, no words.
That must be the same in Tokyo, no?
....
I agree.
I really disliked fighting in america and in Mexico (jesus Mexico) basically due to the rapid escalation from fists to weapons and so forth.
Anyway, its nice here...just sometimes, someones snaps at someone (rarely at me) and I have that old urge so to speak....I dunno. Maybe I have a problem
I agree.
I really disliked fighting in america and in Mexico (jesus Mexico) basically due to the rapid escalation from fists to weapons and so forth.
Anyway, its nice here...just sometimes, someones snaps at someone (rarely at me) and I have that old urge so to speak....I dunno. Maybe I have a problem
Violence largely takes place within subcultures. For example, when I was a new recruit in a Japanese company, by supervisor often punched me or kicked me. It was a common practice back then. Either that, or if you are in a gang in Japan, it's a lot more common to see violence between the same gang members, often from a senior member against a junior member. You can also see this in college "circles" and other social groups.
I've noticed the same thing. For me a big thing seems to be a different reaction to or way of dealing with alcohol. In most western cultures ( anglo anyway ) drunkeness is often associated with violence - for whatever reason. Maybe its a higher level of testerone or somthing but I'm certainly aware of an air of aggression when going out to clubs/pubs back in Aus. Not in all of them - but I rarely come across that in Tokyo - oh except for the time some Russian guy decided to smack my mate with a pool cue at a bar in Roppongi - but thats another story. :)
To answer your original point - I guess there is less awareness of potential physical confrontations because people in general rarely encounter them here - in public at least.
Its also likely that as someone who is regularly training some kind of contact sport/art you have a much more highly attuned awarenes of these things.
To answer your original point - I guess there is less awareness of potential physical confrontations because people in general rarely encounter them here - in public at least.
Its also likely that as someone who is regularly training some kind of contact sport/art you have a much more highly attuned awarenes of these things.
Ted man that fuckin sucks. Although I want to hit my employees sometimes, I just deduct from their bonuses.
I have been in fights in Japan, usually with intoxicated people (foreign and domestic). Although usually it is just 2 hits, me hitting them and them hitting the ground. I have gotten into a fight with a colleague in the past. As I was totally in the right, he was terminated the next day. He also wound up having to pay for a brand new suit, as he tore mine a little bit.
I actually see mroe fights in Tokyo than I do in NYC. In NYC you don't knw whois packin' heat. In Japan, practically no one does, so usually it ends up with a lot of shoving and hitting.
In general though:
1. most fights are within social circles as Ted points out, and usually the cops don't get involved.
2. when the fight occurs outside the circle, I find that cops get involved. Someone will call the cops. So end the fight as quickly as possible and get away.
3. never hit a cop. Ever. Anywhere in the world. This is just common sense. I could tell you stories of some very stupid people...
4. as a foreigner, don't get into fights with the locals. You are at a disadvantage. YOu might be physically bigger, but if the cops come you are the one going down and they are itching to pulverize you.
5. Obviously, never hit a yak. You will die.
I have been in fights in Japan, usually with intoxicated people (foreign and domestic). Although usually it is just 2 hits, me hitting them and them hitting the ground. I have gotten into a fight with a colleague in the past. As I was totally in the right, he was terminated the next day. He also wound up having to pay for a brand new suit, as he tore mine a little bit.
I actually see mroe fights in Tokyo than I do in NYC. In NYC you don't knw whois packin' heat. In Japan, practically no one does, so usually it ends up with a lot of shoving and hitting.
In general though:
1. most fights are within social circles as Ted points out, and usually the cops don't get involved.
2. when the fight occurs outside the circle, I find that cops get involved. Someone will call the cops. So end the fight as quickly as possible and get away.
3. never hit a cop. Ever. Anywhere in the world. This is just common sense. I could tell you stories of some very stupid people...
4. as a foreigner, don't get into fights with the locals. You are at a disadvantage. YOu might be physically bigger, but if the cops come you are the one going down and they are itching to pulverize you.
5. Obviously, never hit a yak. You will die.
...,
I've heard a lot of stories also from foreign men saying they've been slapped around by their Japanese girlfriends, but anyway, I have heard of stories about women getting hit, but I grew up in USA so I definitely know more American women who've been beat up by their Boyfriends/Husbands.
I don't think MORE men are abusive here. Also, maybe you just attract a certain kind of woman.
My Husband doesn't hit me and he's Japanese. There's some more first hand experience for ya!
I've heard a lot of stories also from foreign men saying they've been slapped around by their Japanese girlfriends, but anyway, I have heard of stories about women getting hit, but I grew up in USA so I definitely know more American women who've been beat up by their Boyfriends/Husbands.
I don't think MORE men are abusive here. Also, maybe you just attract a certain kind of woman.
My Husband doesn't hit me and he's Japanese. There's some more first hand experience for ya!
I understand the idea of saying that violence isnt a choice but I live in the real world, by that I mean the physical REALITY that yes in fact, Violence is a choice.
I personally do not settle disputes with violence, I have been attacked more times than I can count, due to the places I have chosen to put myself.
But I genuinly feel that yes, if you stand in front of my face and you begin saying really disgusting degrading things to me, or if god forbid you make the mistake of touching me even something like putting your finger in my chest, well...I am going to put you down. Its simple.
Honestly, I dont think that is unreasonable.
Verbally, if people can stay calm and argue intelligently, I dont feel the need to react violently, however if the other party starts to escalate things by yelling or throwing things or moving in an aggressive manner in my direction, I dont wait I just stop that aggression before it becomes a threat to me or my friends/loved ones.
I personally do not settle disputes with violence, I have been attacked more times than I can count, due to the places I have chosen to put myself.
But I genuinly feel that yes, if you stand in front of my face and you begin saying really disgusting degrading things to me, or if god forbid you make the mistake of touching me even something like putting your finger in my chest, well...I am going to put you down. Its simple.
Honestly, I dont think that is unreasonable.
Verbally, if people can stay calm and argue intelligently, I dont feel the need to react violently, however if the other party starts to escalate things by yelling or throwing things or moving in an aggressive manner in my direction, I dont wait I just stop that aggression before it becomes a threat to me or my friends/loved ones.
I like that preemptive strike attitude Archangel..... makes sense to me. You just have to be careful not to fuck anybody up too badly. As you said they don`t understand that they are about to get knocked out. They think its a verbal argument. Its often difficult to judge when that invisible line gets crossed. I just walk away when I can. If they persist, well thats another issue. You better be careful though. If you had your hands and feet are registered at the a police station by your dojo ( and they probably were if you took the "Dan" test and passed you can get in a lot of trouble for punching out a regular pedestrian unless you are attacked first. And even than you have to show control and do as little damage as possible. I have been there and done that.
The other day there were six white guys in front of my apartment (I live in Ohio). They asked me if I'd like to join them to "kick some nigger ass." I declined, but I have been asked similar things in Japan where some "teamers" asked me if I'd like to help them beat up some Koreans (I declined and later heard the Koreans beat them up instead).
I guess we're equal.
I guess we're equal.
i've lived in san francisco, tokyo, and currently reside in new york and i agree with you, archangel. i bartended at a chain of clubs in sf (on asian nights, mostly hip hop but at times house and trance) there was at least one fight a night. on a good night it would be one fight. hell, someone just got stabbed to death in an l.a. club two weeks ago for bumping into someone. (i think the whole story is some guy bumped into a guy at the next table which started a fight between the groups and the guy who got bumped in to waited for the other group to come out where they jumped them and stabbed one of the guys to death. but i digress)
i laugh my ass off at the japanese hip-hopish i'm hard to the core types. they sport the bling and try walking the walk but have never been to the u.s., and don't understand their style is not a status symbol but a lifestyle. they have NO clue how much trouble they're asking for if they were ever to bring the same look and attitudes here.
so yes, i wholeheartedly agree with you that these guys have no frame of reference to reality.
*disclaimer*
i am in no way endorsing violence and think it's lovely that even if these guys get shit faced drunk, they either just vomit or pass out.
i laugh my ass off at the japanese hip-hopish i'm hard to the core types. they sport the bling and try walking the walk but have never been to the u.s., and don't understand their style is not a status symbol but a lifestyle. they have NO clue how much trouble they're asking for if they were ever to bring the same look and attitudes here.
so yes, i wholeheartedly agree with you that these guys have no frame of reference to reality.
*disclaimer*
i am in no way endorsing violence and think it's lovely that even if these guys get shit faced drunk, they either just vomit or pass out.
I hardly think wearing a short skirt is "teasing". What about the beach ? - is every woman who goes swimming a "tease" ?
or maybe you're just trying to provoke a reaction. Are you really implying that girls who wear short skirts/pants should expect to be harassed ? Expect to be looked at sure - but harassed ?
or maybe you're just trying to provoke a reaction. Are you really implying that girls who wear short skirts/pants should expect to be harassed ? Expect to be looked at sure - but harassed ?
"i laugh my ass off at the japanese hip-hopish i'm hard to the core types. they sport the bling and try walking the walk but have never been to the u.s., and don't understand their style is not a status symbol but a lifestyle. they have NO clue how much trouble they're asking for if they were ever to bring the same look and attitudes here.
so yes, i wholeheartedly agree with you that these guys have no frame of reference to reality. "
HAHA... Reading this I can't help but laugh. I've said the same things about suburban "gangstas" here the states a million times.
It's pretty bad around where I live. Having Philadelphia only 30minutes away the kids(14/15 years old) here think they're "representing Philly." Truth is, you drop these kids off on any street corner in the city and they'll get a rude awakening.
Can't really hold it against Japanese "tough guys" when you have American kids with an even worse grasp on reality.
so yes, i wholeheartedly agree with you that these guys have no frame of reference to reality. "
HAHA... Reading this I can't help but laugh. I've said the same things about suburban "gangstas" here the states a million times.
It's pretty bad around where I live. Having Philadelphia only 30minutes away the kids(14/15 years old) here think they're "representing Philly." Truth is, you drop these kids off on any street corner in the city and they'll get a rude awakening.
Can't really hold it against Japanese "tough guys" when you have American kids with an even worse grasp on reality.
Well i've been attacked before, by my own student. Why? He was not willing to accept that he was in a different culture and was saying all Japanese is strong, and they are correct. Then he went for the racial slurs etc, that was kool with me until he decided to swing. But seriously, the punch was pretty slow and dodged it. I swung back in self-defense and pined him on the ground until he calmed down. Funny end to the story is that he is the closest student i've ever hung out with. I guess guys bond in a weird way?
Well anywho, in my opinion, I think its ok to swing back for self-defense as long as the intent is to disable which means just hold them down or stop them until help comes along. The thing is, fighting is apart of us and our culture. It's a normal instict that we all have. (ya I know way off topic)
Besides most people are really not looking for a fight but rather just to spite you or somethin like that. But still if you can't back up what you say, you are pretty much lookin for a beat down.
Well anywho, in my opinion, I think its ok to swing back for self-defense as long as the intent is to disable which means just hold them down or stop them until help comes along. The thing is, fighting is apart of us and our culture. It's a normal instict that we all have. (ya I know way off topic)
Besides most people are really not looking for a fight but rather just to spite you or somethin like that. But still if you can't back up what you say, you are pretty much lookin for a beat down.
リラックミル,
hey there...
>I've heard a lot of stories also from foreign men saying they've been slapped around by their Japanese girlfriends
I think that's pretty universal isn't it - I think most girls of any nationality might enjoy slapping their boyfriend. Or would like to. And......personally speaking here......I think I like that♪
>I don't think MORE men are abusive here. Also, maybe you just attract a certain kind of woman
Sure I'll take your point on that, as I'm not a woman - I just get the feeling it's more acceptable over here. Do you think the Japanese Police take domestic violence seriously? (relative to western police ofcourse). I don't know, but I do see men bullying their girlfriends openly on the street at night etc. Never saw that in the UK, as if they did someone would almost certainly call the Police or just wade in there and splash the man in the face for being a twat.
I couldn't comment on the girls I attract, but I do go for all sorts that's for sure.
If she doesn't mind slapping her boy about that's an added bonus for me♪
(↑joke)
(↑no)
(↑well yes....but no)
4> Hey there Arch,
>Anyway, its nice here...just sometimes, someones snaps at someone (rarely at me) and I have that old urge so to speak....I dunno. Maybe I have a problem
Don't think that's a problem to want to see a jackass get his shit turned over. It's just your sense of justice I guess...I'd just say it's a kind of dangerous thing when people consider themselves the dispensers of justice, a western way of thinking perhaps, as I hinted in <2>.
Personally I think the depiction of violence in the movies etc is in a large part to blame. Steven Segal putting a pool ball in a sock and walloping someone in the face is bad, but that guy getting up for more after being hit is worse. Totally unreal. I think they should depict violence a bit more realistically, where if someone does that, the other guy has big chunk of bone sticking out of his face, blood is everywhere, and he's screaming and screaming in pain. Then Steven Segal gets 10years in prison for GBH.
That said...
I love to see a good Steven Segal picture. The way the bad guys come flying in on wires doing wild and crazy movements and then Segal just punches them in the face without moving from his one spot is poetry.
And couldn't be mistaken for real life by the kids etc....
Violence is ofcourse bad, but I'd personally say that I think it's important, for men, to get in fights at least once in life. You learn how stupid fighting is, you learn that you don't get away with it, and you learn it's not as easy as on TV, you learn it hurts to get a knuckle sandwhich in the mug, you learn life isn't fair, and you learn how dangerous it is.
It's actually a good deterent perhaps - for most normal minded people anyway....
And is also a kind of "rights of passage thing" I guess....
just my opinion
p/s I read a good book on this a long time ago called "the 4 second fight" by an English guy, forgot his name, but he used to be Bouncer and thrill seeking street-fighter.
hey there...
>I've heard a lot of stories also from foreign men saying they've been slapped around by their Japanese girlfriends
I think that's pretty universal isn't it - I think most girls of any nationality might enjoy slapping their boyfriend. Or would like to. And......personally speaking here......I think I like that♪
>I don't think MORE men are abusive here. Also, maybe you just attract a certain kind of woman
Sure I'll take your point on that, as I'm not a woman - I just get the feeling it's more acceptable over here. Do you think the Japanese Police take domestic violence seriously? (relative to western police ofcourse). I don't know, but I do see men bullying their girlfriends openly on the street at night etc. Never saw that in the UK, as if they did someone would almost certainly call the Police or just wade in there and splash the man in the face for being a twat.
I couldn't comment on the girls I attract, but I do go for all sorts that's for sure.
If she doesn't mind slapping her boy about that's an added bonus for me♪
(↑joke)
(↑no)
(↑well yes....but no)
4> Hey there Arch,
>Anyway, its nice here...just sometimes, someones snaps at someone (rarely at me) and I have that old urge so to speak....I dunno. Maybe I have a problem
Don't think that's a problem to want to see a jackass get his shit turned over. It's just your sense of justice I guess...I'd just say it's a kind of dangerous thing when people consider themselves the dispensers of justice, a western way of thinking perhaps, as I hinted in <2>.
Personally I think the depiction of violence in the movies etc is in a large part to blame. Steven Segal putting a pool ball in a sock and walloping someone in the face is bad, but that guy getting up for more after being hit is worse. Totally unreal. I think they should depict violence a bit more realistically, where if someone does that, the other guy has big chunk of bone sticking out of his face, blood is everywhere, and he's screaming and screaming in pain. Then Steven Segal gets 10years in prison for GBH.
That said...
I love to see a good Steven Segal picture. The way the bad guys come flying in on wires doing wild and crazy movements and then Segal just punches them in the face without moving from his one spot is poetry.
And couldn't be mistaken for real life by the kids etc....
Violence is ofcourse bad, but I'd personally say that I think it's important, for men, to get in fights at least once in life. You learn how stupid fighting is, you learn that you don't get away with it, and you learn it's not as easy as on TV, you learn it hurts to get a knuckle sandwhich in the mug, you learn life isn't fair, and you learn how dangerous it is.
It's actually a good deterent perhaps - for most normal minded people anyway....
And is also a kind of "rights of passage thing" I guess....
just my opinion
p/s I read a good book on this a long time ago called "the 4 second fight" by an English guy, forgot his name, but he used to be Bouncer and thrill seeking street-fighter.
...,
Well, about the police...The laws in Japan aren't just LESS strict about domestic violence. There are a lot of things that people get away with or just get a slap on the wrist for doing (not just gaijin either!). I don't think it has to do necessarily with "it's more socially acceptable". I think people in Japan might have a different perception about police and goverment, etc. For example, in USA (I don't know about UK), people are ready to rip someone's head off over injustices and feel they have the right to voice their opinion loud and clear about what should be done about a crime. In Japan, it is not really that way. People don't have a sense of "this country is here to serve ME".
Well, about the police...The laws in Japan aren't just LESS strict about domestic violence. There are a lot of things that people get away with or just get a slap on the wrist for doing (not just gaijin either!). I don't think it has to do necessarily with "it's more socially acceptable". I think people in Japan might have a different perception about police and goverment, etc. For example, in USA (I don't know about UK), people are ready to rip someone's head off over injustices and feel they have the right to voice their opinion loud and clear about what should be done about a crime. In Japan, it is not really that way. People don't have a sense of "this country is here to serve ME".
Just to clear this nonsense up...
It doesnt matter what a woman is wearing or not wearing, it doesnt matter if she is spread eagle in a love hotel working a dildo in and out-
IF SHE SAYS NO, and you continue to aggress, thats rape.
And let me find out about it....then we can all have a real life example of this Justice from the hip that seems to be the topic now.
It doesnt matter what a woman is wearing or not wearing, it doesnt matter if she is spread eagle in a love hotel working a dildo in and out-
IF SHE SAYS NO, and you continue to aggress, thats rape.
And let me find out about it....then we can all have a real life example of this Justice from the hip that seems to be the topic now.
33>
I totally agree the Japanese perception of what the Police are for and the Western perception are probably different.
I think that's what I was saying wasn't it....
Taking America as an example, there's a real "I am the law" kind of frontier attitutude, where if someone feels they have been wronged, insulted, whatever, they'll take matters into their own hands, which in this case means banging someone in the melon.
The problem is everyone's standards are different, which is some people think they get hit for no reason. Or others can't understand why someone doesn't lay a smack on another for something they said..
I think Archangel was asking about wether Japanese kids have this facility or not....
Regarding domestic violence ; Yeah sure, agree with everything you say. What I wonder about is say a Japanese girl went to the Japanese Police and said "my boyfriend is hitting me" how seriously they'd actually follow that up. I know in the UK up until recent times the Police really didn't put any sort of priority/attention on domestic violence until there was public pressure, spotlight put on it...
anyway
must work now etc
I totally agree the Japanese perception of what the Police are for and the Western perception are probably different.
I think that's what I was saying wasn't it....
Taking America as an example, there's a real "I am the law" kind of frontier attitutude, where if someone feels they have been wronged, insulted, whatever, they'll take matters into their own hands, which in this case means banging someone in the melon.
The problem is everyone's standards are different, which is some people think they get hit for no reason. Or others can't understand why someone doesn't lay a smack on another for something they said..
I think Archangel was asking about wether Japanese kids have this facility or not....
Regarding domestic violence ; Yeah sure, agree with everything you say. What I wonder about is say a Japanese girl went to the Japanese Police and said "my boyfriend is hitting me" how seriously they'd actually follow that up. I know in the UK up until recent times the Police really didn't put any sort of priority/attention on domestic violence until there was public pressure, spotlight put on it...
anyway
must work now etc
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