Hi everyone ! I was deeply moved by Lt.Watada's speech.
In Japan, his news was broadcasted in late night news in national network (which is a wide reach). I was thinking that a LOT of people would become supporters of his courage & wishing his feedom is protected...
(Assuming many participants here lives in non-Japan country,) how is supporter movement in your country ?
I was wondering it as according to 'Thank You LT.' site, it collected 'over 5000 signs' -- seems too few, for this hero.
Thank You LT. --> http://
In Japan, his news was broadcasted in late night news in national network (which is a wide reach). I was thinking that a LOT of people would become supporters of his courage & wishing his feedom is protected...
(Assuming many participants here lives in non-Japan country,) how is supporter movement in your country ?
I was wondering it as according to 'Thank You LT.' site, it collected 'over 5000 signs' -- seems too few, for this hero.
Thank You LT. --> http://
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コメント(27)
I had no idea Lt. Watada's incident was making such big headlines in Japan. Is it largely because he is Japanese-American?
I have a mixed feeling about his refusal to be deployed to Iraq. As someone who's totally against the war, I praise Lt. Watada's courage to stand up and express his honest feelings about it. OTOH, he is in the U.S. Armed Forces. If I understand it correctly, it means that he has agreed to be deployed wherever he's ordered to.
What the Army could have done was to let him resign voluntarily instead of charging him for the refusal.
I have a mixed feeling about his refusal to be deployed to Iraq. As someone who's totally against the war, I praise Lt. Watada's courage to stand up and express his honest feelings about it. OTOH, he is in the U.S. Armed Forces. If I understand it correctly, it means that he has agreed to be deployed wherever he's ordered to.
What the Army could have done was to let him resign voluntarily instead of charging him for the refusal.
"I think Lt.Watada just disagree on IRAQ war, claiming that it is illegal war."
Not really up to him - he joined the US armed forces, and he has to follow the laws of the United States. This war was authorized by the US congress, which is authorized by the US constitution to declare war. So, from his standpoint as a member of the US armed forces, it is a perfectly legal war.
If he's worried about international law, he should have joined some other army. Instead, he joined the US armed forces, which binds him to follow US law and to uphold the US constitution.
I am against the Iraq war, but I am even more against US servicemen choosing when and where to disobey orders based on their interpretation of U.N. resolutions. There is no requirement for servicemen to follow orders that break US laws, but the whole point of having an army is to be ready to fight, and it's not up to individual soldiers to decide whether or not they want to. They made that decision when they joined. Whether or not to actually fight is congress's job under the constitution, and congress has authorized this war.
Not really up to him - he joined the US armed forces, and he has to follow the laws of the United States. This war was authorized by the US congress, which is authorized by the US constitution to declare war. So, from his standpoint as a member of the US armed forces, it is a perfectly legal war.
If he's worried about international law, he should have joined some other army. Instead, he joined the US armed forces, which binds him to follow US law and to uphold the US constitution.
I am against the Iraq war, but I am even more against US servicemen choosing when and where to disobey orders based on their interpretation of U.N. resolutions. There is no requirement for servicemen to follow orders that break US laws, but the whole point of having an army is to be ready to fight, and it's not up to individual soldiers to decide whether or not they want to. They made that decision when they joined. Whether or not to actually fight is congress's job under the constitution, and congress has authorized this war.
Let’s face the facts.
War in Iraq is not illegal according to the US laws.
(According to the international laws, probably certain aspects
of this war are illegal.)
It is just unpopular, inefficient, poorly planned, “misunderestimated,”
out-of-control, but not illegal.
More amount of tax money you can probably send astronauts to the Mars
has been approved by US Congress as the budget for this war.
This is legal and democratically approved war, again,
according to the US laws.
So, I think it is not good idea to support Lt. Watada because
a military personnel is supposed to be loyal to his or her country first
and it should be political and democratic decision how far
a country should respect the international laws.
Instead, we can just criticize that the war is
inefficient, poorly planned, “misunderestimated,” out-of-control, and losing.
War in Iraq is not illegal according to the US laws.
(According to the international laws, probably certain aspects
of this war are illegal.)
It is just unpopular, inefficient, poorly planned, “misunderestimated,”
out-of-control, but not illegal.
More amount of tax money you can probably send astronauts to the Mars
has been approved by US Congress as the budget for this war.
This is legal and democratically approved war, again,
according to the US laws.
So, I think it is not good idea to support Lt. Watada because
a military personnel is supposed to be loyal to his or her country first
and it should be political and democratic decision how far
a country should respect the international laws.
Instead, we can just criticize that the war is
inefficient, poorly planned, “misunderestimated,” out-of-control, and losing.
りーﾁｬﾝ，
There can be just as many public opinions in NY as there are New Yorkers. I agree with Jeff on what being in the U.S. Armed Forces means, like I said in my first post. In the meantime, a co-worker of mine disagrees with me, and we both live in Seattle.
The local Japanese newspaper ran a survey on Lt. Watada's action a few weeks ago. They asked several Japanese-American veterans what they thought of his refusal to go to Iraq. I had expected an unanimous voice criticizing him, but I was wrong. Some veterans openly praised Watada for his courage. Others criticized him for the reason Jeff gave in his above post.
There can be just as many public opinions in NY as there are New Yorkers. I agree with Jeff on what being in the U.S. Armed Forces means, like I said in my first post. In the meantime, a co-worker of mine disagrees with me, and we both live in Seattle.
The local Japanese newspaper ran a survey on Lt. Watada's action a few weeks ago. They asked several Japanese-American veterans what they thought of his refusal to go to Iraq. I had expected an unanimous voice criticizing him, but I was wrong. Some veterans openly praised Watada for his courage. Others criticized him for the reason Jeff gave in his above post.
If he doesn't want to follow the orders he dislikes, he chose the wrong job.
Being in the military involves hierarchy and discipline, especially so when you're closer to the higher ranks. A Lt. can't revolt because that puts many people under him in a difficult position. If a General revolts, it is a coup.
I understand it sucks to resing a Lt salary, but he should resign.
Being in the military involves hierarchy and discipline, especially so when you're closer to the higher ranks. A Lt. can't revolt because that puts many people under him in a difficult position. If a General revolts, it is a coup.
I understand it sucks to resing a Lt salary, but he should resign.
I totally agree with Jeff 100%. I myself am in the Military, and one of the very first rules they teach you is to Follow Orders. You may not like what you have to do. But it is your JOB and you signed up for it. And it’s THE LAW.
If everyone in the U.S.Army were to think like him, it would completely fuck everything that the Military stands for. You’re told to do it, so you have to do it.
In my eyes, It's somewhat of a disgrace what he did, I've had many friends who have fought in the Iraqi war, Most of them didn't agree with the Iraqi war, But did they go? Yes they did. Why? Because they Country told them to, so they have to.
He's not just Turning his back on his Country, He's turning he's back on his fellow man that he is sworn to lead as an Officer.
If I were told to go to Iraqi, I would go, not because I agree with the war, But because I was told to go. And that's my Job!
People these days are becoming too weak.
If you can't handle figting or putting your life on the line, Go join the U.S. Air Force!!!! =P
Semper Fi!
If everyone in the U.S.Army were to think like him, it would completely fuck everything that the Military stands for. You’re told to do it, so you have to do it.
In my eyes, It's somewhat of a disgrace what he did, I've had many friends who have fought in the Iraqi war, Most of them didn't agree with the Iraqi war, But did they go? Yes they did. Why? Because they Country told them to, so they have to.
He's not just Turning his back on his Country, He's turning he's back on his fellow man that he is sworn to lead as an Officer.
If I were told to go to Iraqi, I would go, not because I agree with the war, But because I was told to go. And that's my Job!
People these days are becoming too weak.
If you can't handle figting or putting your life on the line, Go join the U.S. Air Force!!!! =P
Semper Fi!
He signed a form DA 71 (Oath of Office) :
"I _____________, having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of Second Lieutenant, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; SO HELP ME GOD."
"I _____________, having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of Second Lieutenant, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; SO HELP ME GOD."
I was in the 1st Gulf War. (U.S. Navy) We all singed the same paper to follow orders of the Commander In Chief ( Pres. of U.S.A.) I could understand if he ws drafted but he was. I love the U.S.A. but I dislke war but the the Military is a job of war. I did not see the the T.V. Show and I am happy I did not. People like him make me angry. Men and Women much greater than him Died and got Hurt while wearing that Uniform and you never saw them or their Families do something like this. Maybe he just wanted a 9-5 and thought that this was the job for him, But I think he is just a COWARD and want other to fill sorry for him.
But correct me if i am wrong.. This isn't a Job of Choices.. In the Military, You don't have a choice of what you want and don't want to do.. They put you were they need you the most. Obviously, They didn't need him in Afghan, They needed him in Iraq and as his Duty to the U.S. Army.. It is his Obligation to Fullfill his duties and do what commanding officer asks of him.
This isn't the Boy Scouts. In my eyes, What he has done is a Disgrace to the Uniform. Who would want to serve under such a man who can't follow orders and do what is asked of him.
There are no choices in the Military. Only Orders.
This isn't the Boy Scouts. In my eyes, What he has done is a Disgrace to the Uniform. Who would want to serve under such a man who can't follow orders and do what is asked of him.
There are no choices in the Military. Only Orders.
Another point.
Let's suppose that Lt. Watada's intention to respect
the international laws is absolutely correct.
However, if he respects the international laws that much,
he should refuse being deployed not only in Iraq but also in Afganistan
as well.
Under strict interpretation,
the war in Afghanistan is also illegal in some aspects.
Only difference is more countries including France are supporting
in the case of Afghanistan.
Therefore Lt. Watada's position seems contradictory even
from the point of view of international laws.
Let's suppose that Lt. Watada's intention to respect
the international laws is absolutely correct.
However, if he respects the international laws that much,
he should refuse being deployed not only in Iraq but also in Afganistan
as well.
Under strict interpretation,
the war in Afghanistan is also illegal in some aspects.
Only difference is more countries including France are supporting
in the case of Afghanistan.
Therefore Lt. Watada's position seems contradictory even
from the point of view of international laws.
He tried to resign his commission. The Army refused.
An update on his story:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003107653_watadacharged6m.html
As for the argument that it's the duty of the soldiers to "just obey orders", I disagree. It's the duty of soldiers to obey LAWFUL orders. If your commanding officers orders you to put a gun to the head of a 5 year old child and to pull the trigger, do you think the argument, "I was just following orders!" is going to save you from prosecution of committing a war crime and a violation of the Geneva Conventions? A just military needs intelligent soldiers who can listen to their conscience as well as obey orders - not mindless drones who do everything they're told without a second thought.
For more reading on the subject, read Lawrence Mosqueda's article "A Duty To Disobey All Unlawful Orders":
http://www.counterpunch.org/mosqueda02272003.html
Oh, and the accusaion of Lt. Watada being a coward is ridiculous. He's facing over 7 years of prison time if he gets convicted, and last I checked, prison isn't exactly a nice place to be.
An update on his story:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003107653_watadacharged6m.html
As for the argument that it's the duty of the soldiers to "just obey orders", I disagree. It's the duty of soldiers to obey LAWFUL orders. If your commanding officers orders you to put a gun to the head of a 5 year old child and to pull the trigger, do you think the argument, "I was just following orders!" is going to save you from prosecution of committing a war crime and a violation of the Geneva Conventions? A just military needs intelligent soldiers who can listen to their conscience as well as obey orders - not mindless drones who do everything they're told without a second thought.
For more reading on the subject, read Lawrence Mosqueda's article "A Duty To Disobey All Unlawful Orders":
http://www.counterpunch.org/mosqueda02272003.html
Oh, and the accusaion of Lt. Watada being a coward is ridiculous. He's facing over 7 years of prison time if he gets convicted, and last I checked, prison isn't exactly a nice place to be.
Of course if the Soldier was told to shoot a 5 year old. Yes, He has grounds to disobey that order.
I didn't say everyone had to be Mindless Killing Drones Walking the Battle Fields with no Emotion, Remorse or Intellect. What I was trying to say, Is if they tell you to go somewhere. You have to go. You don't have a choice whether you want to go or not. It's your duty to go. That’s what they trained you for and pay you for.
I can understand the way Watada feels about the war. And I can somewhat agree with what he says. But, I'm sure 75% of all the Soldiers think the same thing in one way or another. BUT, they all understand. This is their job. My friends shipping out next week for Iraq, of course he doesn’t want to fight in Iraq. But it’s what his job is. He’s paid to fight, even if he doesn’t agree with the reasons or place or people or what not.
Of course there are times when you can disobey an order. That’s understandable, “To a Point”. Shooting an Innocent kid, killing bystanders, est. But, because you don’t agree with the war, and the reasons or way Bush started the war. Now that’s not a good reason. Look at Vietnam or the Korean War. Do you think those Soldiers wanted to be over there? I don’t think so, but they still had to go.
Now what they do during the war, who they kill, and how they kill. There are rules and regulations for that. But, Not wanting to go is just not legitimate grounds to disobey that order.
I just believe the Way Watada did it. Is dishonorable and well simply pathetic. I'm not that Familiar with Military Law yet, But I am sure there is probably a more Legitimate way to do it. Without Disgracing the Military and his fellow man.
And why would an Officer order you to put a gun to a 5 Year Old Child’s head. Obviously, if someone told you to do that, they are not fit for duty. And it's totally a legit reason to disobey such a strange order.
Now, if that kid were walking towards you with C4 strapped to their body and a detonator in their hand. By all means... shoot...
I didn't say everyone had to be Mindless Killing Drones Walking the Battle Fields with no Emotion, Remorse or Intellect. What I was trying to say, Is if they tell you to go somewhere. You have to go. You don't have a choice whether you want to go or not. It's your duty to go. That’s what they trained you for and pay you for.
I can understand the way Watada feels about the war. And I can somewhat agree with what he says. But, I'm sure 75% of all the Soldiers think the same thing in one way or another. BUT, they all understand. This is their job. My friends shipping out next week for Iraq, of course he doesn’t want to fight in Iraq. But it’s what his job is. He’s paid to fight, even if he doesn’t agree with the reasons or place or people or what not.
Of course there are times when you can disobey an order. That’s understandable, “To a Point”. Shooting an Innocent kid, killing bystanders, est. But, because you don’t agree with the war, and the reasons or way Bush started the war. Now that’s not a good reason. Look at Vietnam or the Korean War. Do you think those Soldiers wanted to be over there? I don’t think so, but they still had to go.
Now what they do during the war, who they kill, and how they kill. There are rules and regulations for that. But, Not wanting to go is just not legitimate grounds to disobey that order.
I just believe the Way Watada did it. Is dishonorable and well simply pathetic. I'm not that Familiar with Military Law yet, But I am sure there is probably a more Legitimate way to do it. Without Disgracing the Military and his fellow man.
And why would an Officer order you to put a gun to a 5 Year Old Child’s head. Obviously, if someone told you to do that, they are not fit for duty. And it's totally a legit reason to disobey such a strange order.
Now, if that kid were walking towards you with C4 strapped to their body and a detonator in their hand. By all means... shoot...
Besides his obligation to go without passing any judgement, let me also add something. This moment in time, if you care in the slightest about the iraqi people and you have the opportunity to go there to help, you should go.
The bombings are over, now the troops are there to help consolidating democracy and some basic law enforcement.
Now that the damage is done, the worst thing to do is leaving the civilians defenseless. The newly reinstaurated police and army of Iraq are still not ready to preserve law and order by themselves in a devastated country where most people are tempted to resort to crime.
Watada should have gone there if only to help iraqi people and check they're not wronged by others who will go anyway or are there already.
The bombings are over, now the troops are there to help consolidating democracy and some basic law enforcement.
Now that the damage is done, the worst thing to do is leaving the civilians defenseless. The newly reinstaurated police and army of Iraq are still not ready to preserve law and order by themselves in a devastated country where most people are tempted to resort to crime.
Watada should have gone there if only to help iraqi people and check they're not wronged by others who will go anyway or are there already.
〉Pr0digalS0n
I am afraid you are too naïve.
Technically, some of US soldiers in Iraq have been ordered
to kill kids already. I heard a report on NPR regarding US female
soldier who is suffering from PTD caused by her experiences
in Iraq. She was doing ground logistics and ordered “never to stop
on the road.” If there was a kid in the middle of road,
her truck was supposed to hit the kid and drive away. Sadly,
She DID follow such order.
It is common terrorist trap to place a kid on the road and ambush.
If the US convoy stops, the ambush succeeds.
If US convoy hit the kid and run, anti-US sentiment will flame.
Either way, terrorists win.
First of all, I deeply hate terrorists who do such unthinkably
cruel thing.
At the same time, I think being US soldier is still all about
being obedient the orders no matter what because, just like this story,
sometimes it is how a soldier protect herself or himself.
I am afraid you are too naïve.
Technically, some of US soldiers in Iraq have been ordered
to kill kids already. I heard a report on NPR regarding US female
soldier who is suffering from PTD caused by her experiences
in Iraq. She was doing ground logistics and ordered “never to stop
on the road.” If there was a kid in the middle of road,
her truck was supposed to hit the kid and drive away. Sadly,
She DID follow such order.
It is common terrorist trap to place a kid on the road and ambush.
If the US convoy stops, the ambush succeeds.
If US convoy hit the kid and run, anti-US sentiment will flame.
Either way, terrorists win.
First of all, I deeply hate terrorists who do such unthinkably
cruel thing.
At the same time, I think being US soldier is still all about
being obedient the orders no matter what because, just like this story,
sometimes it is how a soldier protect herself or himself.
>And why would an Officer order you to put a gun to a 5 Year Old Child’s head. Obviously, if someone told you to do that, they are not fit for duty.
Officers are human beings, and human beings are imperfect creatures that are completely capable of making mistakes. While they're supposed to be more responsible and intelligent than your average grunt, it's completely possible you have officers (for whatever reason) that are unfit for duty and still handing out orders.
>Now that the damage is done, the worst thing to do is leaving the civilians defenseless. The newly reinstaurated police and army of Iraq are still not ready to preserve law and order by themselves in a devastated country where most people are tempted to resort to crime.
This is a good point, myuubyou and I agree that Iraq should not be abandoned. But I believe the US can do a lot more good for Iraq with personnel other than the large amount of troops that are there. Special forces, MPs and officers to train the new Iraqi army / police, more doctors, teachers... etc.
>Technically, some of US soldiers in Iraq have been ordered to kill kids already.
I don't find this very comforting.
Do you about know this story?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003116810_soldiers10.html
Five US soldiers have been charged with murder, rape, and conspiracy to cover it up. They raped a girl (whose age could be as young as 15), but before that, they murdered her whole family... including her 5 year old sister. The family was at home at the time of the attack.
If that isn't a war crime, I don't know what is. =/
Officers are human beings, and human beings are imperfect creatures that are completely capable of making mistakes. While they're supposed to be more responsible and intelligent than your average grunt, it's completely possible you have officers (for whatever reason) that are unfit for duty and still handing out orders.
>Now that the damage is done, the worst thing to do is leaving the civilians defenseless. The newly reinstaurated police and army of Iraq are still not ready to preserve law and order by themselves in a devastated country where most people are tempted to resort to crime.
This is a good point, myuubyou and I agree that Iraq should not be abandoned. But I believe the US can do a lot more good for Iraq with personnel other than the large amount of troops that are there. Special forces, MPs and officers to train the new Iraqi army / police, more doctors, teachers... etc.
>Technically, some of US soldiers in Iraq have been ordered to kill kids already.
I don't find this very comforting.
Do you about know this story?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003116810_soldiers10.html
Five US soldiers have been charged with murder, rape, and conspiracy to cover it up. They raped a girl (whose age could be as young as 15), but before that, they murdered her whole family... including her 5 year old sister. The family was at home at the time of the attack.
If that isn't a war crime, I don't know what is. =/
Lt. Watada should be commended for his stand as should the Generals who came out in April and basically said the Bush Amdinistration did not know what the hell they were doing.
Bush has been itching for a fight with Iraq. He mentioned it as a possibility during his 2000 campaign. Their linking it to 9/11 as part of the war on terror was outrageous but the gullible public bought it.
Now we are paying the price. Over 2500 US soldiers dead and many many more wounded because of Bush's stupidity and arrogance. What happens to the many of thousands of injured soldiers who come home and can't work due to injuries? The Republicans in their "patriotic" fervor cut benefits to veterans in order to accomodate tax breaks for the wealthy. My father in-law is part of the VFW and did not appreciate such a move.
I cannot imagine what kind of stress the soldiers are fighting under now. It is not surprising some of them are raping and killing innocent people. What do we expect? They were sent overunder false pretenses by cowards who have never set foot on a battlefield.
If the administration believes whole-heartedly in this war how come not one sent a child memeber of their own to go fight?
Bush is a disgrace. He single-handedly has made the world a more dangerous place to live. Iraq was never a threat to the US. As this rate Iraqis may have been better off under Saddam. At least with a dictatorship ethnic differences are suppressed. Now they have a civil war on their hands. Something ANYONE with a sense of history of Iraq would have been able to predict.
First we went into Iraq because they had Weapons of Mass Destructions. Then it changed to bringing democracy. The real reason we went into Iraq to satisfy the Military Industrial complex and their need to test new toys. See the film "Why We Fight."
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/
Like many American Lt. Watada believed Bush. When he found out it was a lie he did the right thing. He is a true patriot.
Bush has been itching for a fight with Iraq. He mentioned it as a possibility during his 2000 campaign. Their linking it to 9/11 as part of the war on terror was outrageous but the gullible public bought it.
Now we are paying the price. Over 2500 US soldiers dead and many many more wounded because of Bush's stupidity and arrogance. What happens to the many of thousands of injured soldiers who come home and can't work due to injuries? The Republicans in their "patriotic" fervor cut benefits to veterans in order to accomodate tax breaks for the wealthy. My father in-law is part of the VFW and did not appreciate such a move.
I cannot imagine what kind of stress the soldiers are fighting under now. It is not surprising some of them are raping and killing innocent people. What do we expect? They were sent overunder false pretenses by cowards who have never set foot on a battlefield.
If the administration believes whole-heartedly in this war how come not one sent a child memeber of their own to go fight?
Bush is a disgrace. He single-handedly has made the world a more dangerous place to live. Iraq was never a threat to the US. As this rate Iraqis may have been better off under Saddam. At least with a dictatorship ethnic differences are suppressed. Now they have a civil war on their hands. Something ANYONE with a sense of history of Iraq would have been able to predict.
First we went into Iraq because they had Weapons of Mass Destructions. Then it changed to bringing democracy. The real reason we went into Iraq to satisfy the Military Industrial complex and their need to test new toys. See the film "Why We Fight."
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/
Like many American Lt. Watada believed Bush. When he found out it was a lie he did the right thing. He is a true patriot.
Pr0digalS0n,
These soldiers who committed rape and murders in Iraq were not ordered
to do so and they will be punished by death penalty, if convicted.
These kinds of incident always occur under any war situation and important thing
is readiness of a system and moral to punish those who committed crimes.
So, this is nothing to do with the illegality of war in Iraq,
which Lt. Watada is talking about.
These soldiers who committed rape and murders in Iraq were not ordered
to do so and they will be punished by death penalty, if convicted.
These kinds of incident always occur under any war situation and important thing
is readiness of a system and moral to punish those who committed crimes.
So, this is nothing to do with the illegality of war in Iraq,
which Lt. Watada is talking about.
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