What do you think is the hardest thing in English? For example, "the" and "a", plurals, prepositions (at, in, on, to, of, etc), using "it", the perfect tense (I have done something), present tense versus future tense (I do something/I will do something), etc.
I'm taking a survey because I'm very interested in linguistics and am doing a study on this. A book could be the result of my survey in which I'll try explain what some of these are via examples in both Japanese and English as well as detailed desciptions about the usages of them.
I am not a native speaker of English, but I have no problem understanding the sentence above. That said, people here would probably say "f*** off" for "leave" instead of "piss off." Regional differences. :)
Learning slang may be useful, but it is not an essential part of learning a language. Even native speakers of English may have trouble understanding slang if they stay away from their own country for a while. If I went back to Japan now, I'd have a heck of a hard time understanding what those high-school girls are saying!
daihado - (Is that a pun on Die Hard by chance ^_^) - I was rather shocked to return home and have no idea what "He was totally cheesing at her" meant. F*ckin' kids with their crazy language ;-)
,.. am I the only native speaker here who has used the formal version of "I don't suppose you have a lighter than I could use, do you?"...
... yikes...
tomo - http://www.rpi.edu/web/writingcenter/esl.html is a nice guide to the topic :)
37> "I'm pissed because I had to go out for a piss whilst it was pissing down. Now I can't get back in to get really pissed beacuse the doorman thought I was already pissed, so he told me to piss off. That really pissed me off."
haha, great example.
I think it's important to learn "formal language" because not only is it more likely to be understood, it's much easier to go from formal language to "casual language" rather than vice versa.
The closest analogy I can think of is when you learning a martial art, instruction often starts with rudimentary basics like footwork, posture, kata, etc... it's all very systematic and rigid. It's only after a beginner has begun to master those rudimentary basics than they begin to learn exceptions to those original rigid rules and how to adapt a formalized system to a fluid situation, such as a sparring match or a "real fight".
Haha, yes, "だいはど" came from "daihard," which is my nickname on all the online forums that I belong to. I started out as "だいはーど" here as well, but a couple of Japanese friends told me it would be easer to make it "だいはど", so I broke down and changed it. :)
>> F*ckin' kids with their crazy language ;-)
I hear ya. I feel like I'm on Mars whenever I hear my two nieces talking to each other.
I have got lots of difficulties in english too.
One of the things is preposition like within...
i am still unable to use them in eassays properly...
Another thing in grammar is present perfect? i guess.
Poeple say “Have you finished your homework?”
I thought that should have said
“Did you finish your homework?”
but i was wrong.it was evey confusing..
pronounciation..relative pronoun..sigh..
I have so many troubles...
Sorry i cant decide the hardest one...
"Have you finished your homework" may be more grammatically correct, but I hear "Did you finish your homework?" just as often here in the U.S. Maybe English here is a bit more lax than Queens English? :)
I've thoght the differences above"have U...?" and "did U...?" plobrem like that.
For example,mom knows her kid has some homeworks. In this case, she'll say "Did U...?".
The other side,if mom didn't know her kid had a homework or not, she would say "Have U...?"
What's about my image? Does anyone add the explanation,please?
In my American English I would say "Did you do your homework?" in the first part. The second example I would
say, "Do you have homework?" Remember in the question
sentence you need some form of supporting verb
(are, do) for the main verb. Americans will not use a
"Have you...." question sentence. We instead say
"Do you have...."
As for these questions about a/an with ice cream, it
doesn't really matter to me. A/an is something I hear
native speakers here in America getting wrong often
enough. I think if a general knowlegde is known on
this area, then you are at the same level as a native
speaker. At least in terms of American English.
Is the poster of this thread British or American (or
neither)? I would think there are enough thuroughly
technical/confusing texts to on the market already as
seen by this thread. Why not simplify the language to
achieve native-like speaking abilities. Probably easier
if done with American English (already simplified a bit)
as compared with British English.
Zeta, do you really think that English is an ugly language? Sure, it's irregular, and some kids these days couldn't speak propper English even though it's the only language they know, but it can still be beautiful when coming from someone with a little linguistical talent!
Satoru,
I think the hardest thing with any language is learning vocabulary. Grammar isn't so difficult because you can learn it as you practice it and you can practise it every time you use the language. However with vocabulary, you can only practice it when you use that particular word in that particular situation.
I think there is a trade off between learning Japanese characters and English words. With Japanese words, it's easy to understand the basic meaning of the word if you know what the component characters mean. However, with English words instead of knowing what the word means, you can guess how the word is pronounced from the look of the word and you can also guess how you should write a word from how it's pronounced. That helps you learn to read and write that word so all you have to do is learn to associate the appropriate meaning with the relevent word. With Japanese you can understand the meaning from the character, but you have to memorize the appropriate reading for the word.
Zeta,
It's ironic but the irregularity in English is sometimes what makes it beautiful in some people's eyes. Irregularity means it's harder to learn, but then again, it also allows more freedom when making sentences.
Then again, as we say in English: "What's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander" (I may have misinterpreted and "butchered" that saying, but I'm sure you understand what I mean^^;).
To be honest though, I started learning how to speak in Esperanto because of it's simplicity. The problem that I'd find though is when it comes to translating, most complicated expressions become simplified and then lose the subtleties of the meaning.
I haven't studied at a Japanese school so I can't say from first hand experience, but as far as I know, Japanese people study English grammar to death which is why English conversation schools are so popular. Those schools tend to concentrate less on grammar and more on practising speaking.
Personally I think Japanese education needs to spend less time on grammar itself and more time practising the language through speaking and listening in order to develop the same sense of feeling that native people have.
>A/AN = one of many
>THE = only one
You are, of course, absolutely correct with what you write. However the way in which those rules are applied can sometimes confuse non-native speakers of English.
In a story for example, the first article of a noun will most often be either "a" or "an" because the noun is being introduced. In the second and subsequent instances the article would change to "the" because the subject is already known to the reader. The exception to this rule is when there can logically be "only one" of something or if the writer wants to inspire a feeling of familiarity in the reader.
E.g.
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"In the pale moonlight of the graveyard, a shadow could be seen, darting between the gravestones. Only when a noise was heard did the shadow stop moving."
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"Moonlight" is uncountable and is therefore "only one" hence it takes "the".
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Graveyard can take either "a" or "the", however in this case I want to inspire a sense of familiarity in the reader for the graveyard so I used "the".
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The shadow is the main object in this little story and is introduced with "a". However, in the second sentence, the reader knows which shadow I'm talking about so "the" is better than "a". If I wrote "a shadow" in the second sentence it could imply that I was talking about a different shadow because I didn't use "the".
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I wrote "the gravestones" because gravestones is plural and therefore cannot take "a" ("a" and "an" means only one). "Gravestones" must be preceded either by "the", a number or a possesive pronoun (my, her, his, etc.)
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Finally, I wrote "a noise" because the concept of "noise" is a new to the story and needs to be introduced. If I wanted to inspire a sence of familiarity with the reader then I could've written "the noise".
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It's easy to write "A/AN = one of many, THE = only one THE = only one", but it's more difficult to explain why we use a particular article instead of another. That's why instead of trying to explain every single time, it's better if the student can develop their own sense of which article is correct. The best way, I believe, to do that is through practice and not just study.
Sorry about the long post... I hope I didn't give too many people a headache ^^;.
The basic rule with the use of A/AN is that A should be used before a consonant sound and AN should be used before a vowel sound.
I suppose it's sort of like the Japanese usage of ふん and ぷん when you tell the time. It just flows better, if you know what I mean.
Anyway, for those who didn't understand or was a bit confused by what I posted before;
"I'm pissed because I had to go out for a piss whilst it was pissing down. Now I can't get back in to get really pissed beacuse the doorman thought I was already pissed, so he told me to piss off. That really pissed me off."
Translated into something more readable, it would go like this;
"I'm annoyed because I had to go outside to use the toilet whilst it was raining. Now I can't get back in to get really drunk beacuse the doorman thought I was already drunk, so he told me to go away. That really made me angry."
I wouldn't say English is an ugly language. If English had to be a city, it would Tokyo. Overwhelming, and seemingly endless with all its twists and turns at first. But once you get used to it, you begin to find things that make it more interesting.
I'll tell you what I do think is ugly - the way (UK) teenagers spell in their text messages. Here's an example:
wa§§ap! iz ne13l8ter? i iz3 if manz wana hkup 4sumink! h0l?a mi if ur inture§§tid!!
Wow, Kasasagi, that was amazing. And it made complete sense, yet was so condensed. Did you learn that from a
linguistics class or an english class?
Also, is that 'an' correct before 'english class', or
is there a rule before a proper noun? Look Japanese
dudes, I've been speaking english all my life and the
a/an thing isn't that important. Even I'm not sure
about some of it. HOWEVER, when writing a good story,
the rules KaSaSaGi talked about are paramount. And
even in speaking, those rules hold true. Those rules
are very important if you are to speak like a native
speaker.
English Speaker which is in Japan jokes and sometimes teaches us slang.
I don't like slang and an abbreviation. However, I think that we have to understand it to protect one's body from various danger.
To get possible to use the words and phrases precise in total for TPO is my hardest thing.
"Is this words and phrases plite? childish? ugly? manly? woman-like?" I always worry about them.
>wa§§ap! iz ne13l8ter? i iz3 if manz wana hkup 4sumink! h0l?a mi if ur inture§§tid!!
So... may you translate this into a normal sentence to me, please ?
>wa§§ap! iz ne13l8ter? i iz3 if manz wana hkup 4sumink! h0l?a mi if ur inture§§tid!!
*Whassap!
("What's up!": means literally "What's happening?" or "Has anything interesting happened lately?" and is a greeting similar to "Hi, How are you")
*Is anyone free later? I am free if "manzy(?) want's to hook up for something! Holler me if you're interested!
(hook up means to meet or get together; "Holler" means to call in a loud voice. In this case it's being used instead of call)
I'm not sure what "manzy" is...
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Banana boy>
Thanks for the compliment.
I didn't attend any lingistics classes. I worked as a technical translator in the semiconductor industry for four years "what is the difference between A and AN" is just one of many questions that I was asked so I did my own research as well as trying to deduce rules and patterns by comparing many example sentences. I majored in Physics so my analytical and problem solving skills came in handy.
Sure, no problem. Actually I should apologize. By the time I reread your comment and realized your comments weren't directed at me, my brain had already shut down for the night with my body not far behind^^;.
ふぃーるまいぺいんさん:
asking I-want-to-speak-English Japanese people random (bordering on rude) questions and watching the auto-hai kick in is my favorite part of the day :) I've tried, but failed, to break my students of the habit ;_;
My native English teacher said,
Japanese tend to make mistakes in grammer when speaking with foreigner.
In Japan,there are many oppotunities to learn English.
But,we learned only reading or grammer and only a tool
as a passing exam. Due to it,it causes some mistakes.
One of the pieces of advice I can give to anyone having problems with English pronunciation is to STOP USING ALL KATAKANA. If you have stopped using katakana, that's great. If you haven't, stop using it immediately!
This is what I tell all my students who are serious about their English studies. One of the most common complaints I hear from students in Japan is "I don't know how to read/say this word". The reason for this is because most students in Japan are taught how to spell out English words in Katakana. This results in an inability to read English words well in a lot of cases. If you can't read a word well, you're going to have problems pronouncing that word, and vice-versa.
I tell my students to learn the IPA chart for English vowels, consonants and dipthongs. I tell them to not only memorize the sound but also to practice each individual sound intensely by themselves until they can easily remember the correct reading and sound for each symbol/letter. Once this is mastered, it facilitates reading and pronunciation a whole lot better.
We all have the same potential and abilities in language. Japanese people can pronounce L or R quite clearly. Often it's the methods we use to learn a language that are letting us down.
The subjunctive mood is used to express counterfactual (or conditional) statements, and is often found in if-then statements, and certain formulaic expressions. It is typically marked in the present tense by the auxiliary "were" plus the present participle (<-ing>) of the verb.
Were I eating, I would sit.
If they were eating, they would sit.
Truth be told...
If I were you...
The conjugation of these moods becomes a significantly more complex matter when they are used with different tenses. However, casual spoken English rarely uses the subjunctive, and generally restricts the conditional mood to the simple present and simple past. A notable exception to this is the use of the present subjunctive in clauses of wish or command which is marked in one or two ways: (1) if third person singular, the "-s" conjugation called for by the declarative mood is absent, and (2) past tense is not used. For example, "They insisted that he go to chapel every morning" means that they were requiring or demanding him to go to chapel. However, "They insisted that he went to chapel every morning" means they are reasserting the statement that, in the past, he did attend chapel every morning. The underlying grammar of this distinction has been called the "American subjunctive". On the other hand, other constructions for expressing wishes and commands, which do not use the subjunctive, are equally common, such as "They required him to go...".
Spoken grammer is something different for me.
Since I have endured dosen of exams, I can read English
(at least with using dictionaries)
But speaking needs quick response. Sometime I'm at a loss what to say because I can't materialize my idea or ipinion in English but in Japanese. That makes me sluggish to speak in English.
By the Way, NHK's 10minute program(I can't recall the title but ''Image-what'') offers easy way to grasp the fundamental notion/image of basic words and grammer matters.
As they say, ''a'' is every one something in a group and replacable whereas ''the'' is something you can share with others, if my memory serves
There are 4 things that I think are extremely difficult for Japanese to grasp in English:
1. Prepositions: the proper use of prepositions is VERY hard to get for Japanese, because there are really no proper rules, and very many exceptions to each case. It's also very hard for native-English speakers to explain why certain prepositions are correct and others incorrect. For example, why is it 'on' for a bus, train, bike, and airplane, but 'in' for a car?
2. Negative questions: This is a major cultural difference, and is hard for both English speakers and Japanese speakers to understand. For example, when a person is not hungry, if you ask them, "Aren't you hungry?" in Japanese the answer would be 'Yes', but in English it would be 'No'. Japanese reply to the overall context of the question, whereas in English we reply only based on the verb (hungry).
3. Present/Past/Future perfect tenses: These can be mastered, but they have to be learned, because there is no such structure in Japanese. A Japanese person will often say, "I studied English for 3 years" or "I study English for 3 years" when in fact they mean, "I have been studying English for 3 years (present perfect 'have' plus past participle)". The English examples above have a different meaning (in the first example, the person DID study for 3 years but has quit, while in the second it sounds like a regular habit or custom to study for 3 years). Past perfect is even more difficult, and you can forget about Future perfect because most native English speakers don't even know how to explain it.
4. Slang: Slang in English is relative to the country/culture you live in and has to be the sole reason why English is the most difficult language in the world to master. I am not being pretentious when I say this... it's true. A native English speaker can say almost ANYTHING to another native speaker and usually that person can understand it based on intonation, even if what the person is saying is complete nonsense. Every language has idioms and slang expressions, some more colourful than others, but English has to have the most bizarre and inexplicable phrases of any... and it changes ALL THE TIME!
There are plenty more things that make English difficult, but I think the above are some of the more difficult ones, if not the most. For Japanese learners (not necessarily other countries) there are also the difference in syllables, dipthongs, consonant blends, and other linguistic phenomena.