so, you see a "gaijin" and you want to practice your english. you walk up and say,
"may i sit down?"
iiyo he says.
where are you from?
roshia kara kimashita.
do you like japan?
hai,totemo suki desu....
so we got 2 people who wanna practice language on each other.
which language should they use?
"may i sit down?"
iiyo he says.
where are you from?
roshia kara kimashita.
do you like japan?
hai,totemo suki desu....
so we got 2 people who wanna practice language on each other.
which language should they use?
|
|
|
|
コメント(126)
マル＞ maybe in good ol' california we can chat up strangers. it can be weird if the guy chattin you up is just sending out weird vibes, but nice friendly chat was super common in san francisco. and in good ol tokyo, i manage to have many a friendly chats. hardly ever feel used in fact. and im for sure not using them to practice my japanese. its chat like "hey, youre a girl, why are you smoking a cigar?" or "why are you staring at me?" or "how cute, how old is your baby?" to be honest, i love talking to strangers if they are interesting to me. ive made many a friends this way, or at least 知り合い。
kyle- No, I don't think it is rude to assume that I am an English speaker. I'm a halfer, I've had people think that I'm Mexican, Brazilian, Samoan, Okinawan, Thai, etc etc. I get all kinds of languages coming at me and it doesn't bug me a bit. To tell you the truth, I get WAY more Americans who come up to me and try to speak Japanese, because they think I don't speak English, I usually play along and speak Japanese, It's fun. If you get offended because a person is trying to communicate with you no matter what the language is, makes you indeed a big idiot.
だいはど- Inconsiderate? I don't think so. Like I said above, I get ALOT of Americans who assume that I don't speak English and they try to communicate with some really broken Japanese. They are trying and I am flattered that they are trying to speak a foreign language to speak to me.
マル- English is my first language. "lack of contraction"?? Is this an English test, you trying to "call me out"??? Hahaha
I think alot of you need a big slice of humble pie
だいはど- Inconsiderate? I don't think so. Like I said above, I get ALOT of Americans who assume that I don't speak English and they try to communicate with some really broken Japanese. They are trying and I am flattered that they are trying to speak a foreign language to speak to me.
マル- English is my first language. "lack of contraction"?? Is this an English test, you trying to "call me out"??? Hahaha
I think alot of you need a big slice of humble pie
HingaSPL: Well, as I said, no one really says "It is" instead of "it's" unless they're writing an academic paper, giving a speech, or trying to sound smarter. Which you already know because you're a native speaker. But this isn't a speech, an academic paper, nor I assume, are you trying to sound smarter, so yes, it looked odd.By the way, I have no idea what you mean by "Is this an English test, you trying to "call me out"???"
Kyle: Maybe people in Chicago are more jaded than in California. Though generally if I heard someone say "why are you staring at me" it would sound more confrontational than 'hey, let's be friends' lol.
As for talking to strangers...like I said, over here, unless the circumstances are right, we feel weird being approached by strangers who "just wanna talk." So even if someone were interesting, I wouldn't talk to them under most circumstances. If we're in a group or something, then sure. Or if we're out somewhere, and it's my group and one lonely person on their own, I might invite them to join us (or at an arcade or something). But if I'm alone at the store or on the street, I won't talk to a stranger like that, lol.
Kyle: Maybe people in Chicago are more jaded than in California. Though generally if I heard someone say "why are you staring at me" it would sound more confrontational than 'hey, let's be friends' lol.
As for talking to strangers...like I said, over here, unless the circumstances are right, we feel weird being approached by strangers who "just wanna talk." So even if someone were interesting, I wouldn't talk to them under most circumstances. If we're in a group or something, then sure. Or if we're out somewhere, and it's my group and one lonely person on their own, I might invite them to join us (or at an arcade or something). But if I'm alone at the store or on the street, I won't talk to a stranger like that, lol.
86#,
Yeah, when I went to Chicago I thought EVERYONE was the rudest person I'd ever met. lol I'm from the South and people regularly talk to strangers (long conversations, too). We also say ma'am and sir, and people inChicago actually thought I was trying to be rude when I said it! Major culture shock for me!
Yeah, when I went to Chicago I thought EVERYONE was the rudest person I'd ever met. lol I'm from the South and people regularly talk to strangers (long conversations, too). We also say ma'am and sir, and people inChicago actually thought I was trying to be rude when I said it! Major culture shock for me!
Haha, up north we like to say the Southern states are in their own universe down there...lol. There are lots of differences between the Northern and Southern states, aren't there? Chicago is still (stereotypically) considered to be a very friendly city, as compared to New York. Celebrities and such never fail to mention it whenever they're in town.
I think this discussion never ends. One says it's OK, and the other says it's outrageous. Also, I hear some tourists complain that not even serving an English menu in a big city like Tokyo is tourist unfriendly.
What should we do then?
One thing I found so hilarious with the original topic example, was that we have a Russian who clearly wants to practice Japanese and a Japanese person who seems "desperate" to practice English (and chooses to do so, even though the other person obviously hails from a non-English speaking country).
However in a fast food restaurant, I think it's somewhat understandable that a waitress serves an English menu in some cases. For example, when she thinks that a customer(who appears to be a foreigner) might not understand Japanese. When the waitress only speaks Japanese and there is a long line of frustrated customers waiting behind that customer, the quickest thing she can do is show the International language menu. While she could let the customer continue to practice Japanese, she isn't paid for providing free Japanese lessons and her boss might scold her if she does.
>マル
If those mini-thumb-wrestling matches of linguistic supremacy cause you so much internal conflict, then just eliminate the conflict by asking the other person to speak the language you want. There is no point in letting a small thing like "Why do I have to speak XXXX language?" boil inside you, when you can simply release that stress by saying what is bothering you. After all, people can't read your mind -- so you might as well vocalize your feelings.
A noted Japanese socialist says self-righteous kindness is Japanese national trait. According to him, culturally, Japanese tend to think that what we believe is kind must be kind for others as well. I'm not sure if it's true; but if it is, then this engrained cultural trait won't change over night.
What should we do then?
One thing I found so hilarious with the original topic example, was that we have a Russian who clearly wants to practice Japanese and a Japanese person who seems "desperate" to practice English (and chooses to do so, even though the other person obviously hails from a non-English speaking country).
However in a fast food restaurant, I think it's somewhat understandable that a waitress serves an English menu in some cases. For example, when she thinks that a customer(who appears to be a foreigner) might not understand Japanese. When the waitress only speaks Japanese and there is a long line of frustrated customers waiting behind that customer, the quickest thing she can do is show the International language menu. While she could let the customer continue to practice Japanese, she isn't paid for providing free Japanese lessons and her boss might scold her if she does.
>マル
If those mini-thumb-wrestling matches of linguistic supremacy cause you so much internal conflict, then just eliminate the conflict by asking the other person to speak the language you want. There is no point in letting a small thing like "Why do I have to speak XXXX language?" boil inside you, when you can simply release that stress by saying what is bothering you. After all, people can't read your mind -- so you might as well vocalize your feelings.
A noted Japanese socialist says self-righteous kindness is Japanese national trait. According to him, culturally, Japanese tend to think that what we believe is kind must be kind for others as well. I'm not sure if it's true; but if it is, then this engrained cultural trait won't change over night.
yonyon: You are right about the fast food restaurant. Even though the waitress should not assume that all foreigners will speak and read English (she'd still flip over the menu if that Russian guy from the original topic was in line, right?), in the case you describe it might not be rude. However, you can't defend her actions in the example that was given, where she was EXTREMELY rude in insisting on flipping the menu even though the foreigner obviously did not want her to, and then again by completely ignoring the foreigner as he was ordering in Japanese just because it was not the language that she wanted him to order in.
Also, I already stated that I just say I do not speak English and only speak Spanish. I said that several times actually. However I kept arguing because this is a discussion on whether or not those situations are considered rude, not simply a "what would you do" situation.
Mr. noted japanese socialist has just pointed out one of the big flaws of japanese society if that is true. Self-righteousness is rarely if ever a good thing, and automatically assuming that what you believe is kind is what everyone else should think is kind, is not only self-righteous but selfish.
Also, I already stated that I just say I do not speak English and only speak Spanish. I said that several times actually. However I kept arguing because this is a discussion on whether or not those situations are considered rude, not simply a "what would you do" situation.
Mr. noted japanese socialist has just pointed out one of the big flaws of japanese society if that is true. Self-righteousness is rarely if ever a good thing, and automatically assuming that what you believe is kind is what everyone else should think is kind, is not only self-righteous but selfish.
HingaSPL (#88)
They may have good intentions, but the end result does not reflect it. What makes you think someone whose first language is not English will be flattered when spoken to in English on the assumption that "every foreigner speaks English"?
I am a Japanese living in the U.S. I have been approached and spoken to in Chinese and Korean on quite a few occasions. I am not offended, but I'm not too happy about that either. If they were considerate, they would ask me first if I spoke Chinese (or Korean for that matter).
They may have good intentions, but the end result does not reflect it. What makes you think someone whose first language is not English will be flattered when spoken to in English on the assumption that "every foreigner speaks English"?
I am a Japanese living in the U.S. I have been approached and spoken to in Chinese and Korean on quite a few occasions. I am not offended, but I'm not too happy about that either. If they were considerate, they would ask me first if I spoke Chinese (or Korean for that matter).
93#,
LOL That would only work if the ordering person knows that they must POINT to everything, because ordering in English could be an equally impossible challenge. In the end, I'm pretty sure it would create some slow down. Why don't they just make a big sign that says, "Menus available in English" and have them at the cash register? Or better yet, make one menu that has both English and Japanese?
Haven't you ever heard the expression "Assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups"???
95#,
Yeah, I asked my husband if someone assumed he was Chinese, would he be offended? He was like, "HELL YES. lol Cause I'm not CHINESE!"
LOL That would only work if the ordering person knows that they must POINT to everything, because ordering in English could be an equally impossible challenge. In the end, I'm pretty sure it would create some slow down. Why don't they just make a big sign that says, "Menus available in English" and have them at the cash register? Or better yet, make one menu that has both English and Japanese?
Haven't you ever heard the expression "Assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups"???
95#,
Yeah, I asked my husband if someone assumed he was Chinese, would he be offended? He was like, "HELL YES. lol Cause I'm not CHINESE!"
マル- ?? I'm trying to sound smarter? Who's the smart guy trying to correct everyones grammar?
だいはど- I get it from both sides. In the states people would speak to me in Chinese, Filipino, Thai, Japanese, it didn't bug me at all. Like I said it was flattering that they were going out of their way to try to communicate with me in the language they thought i spoke. When I went to Udon-thani Thailand on the Laos border, I had girls constantly saying "you speak Lao, you speak Lao", They thought I was Laotian and I thought it was funny. Being a halfer I get it on both sides. If the person trying to communicate with you seems sincere, then I don't think that is rude at all.
yonyon- your comment to マル was perfect, I couldn't agree with you more. But it seems that no matter what you say, this "idiot" マル will just conjure up more false storties to justify his idiotic views, haha
だいはど- I get it from both sides. In the states people would speak to me in Chinese, Filipino, Thai, Japanese, it didn't bug me at all. Like I said it was flattering that they were going out of their way to try to communicate with me in the language they thought i spoke. When I went to Udon-thani Thailand on the Laos border, I had girls constantly saying "you speak Lao, you speak Lao", They thought I was Laotian and I thought it was funny. Being a halfer I get it on both sides. If the person trying to communicate with you seems sincere, then I don't think that is rude at all.
yonyon- your comment to マル was perfect, I couldn't agree with you more. But it seems that no matter what you say, this "idiot" マル will just conjure up more false storties to justify his idiotic views, haha
HingaSPL (#98)
>> If the person trying to communicate with you seems sincere, then I don't think
>> that is rude at all.
That's probably where we differ. To me, ignorance can (and does) overshadow sincerity. I mean, how hard is it really to ask first instead of blindly assuming every foreigner-looking person speaks English? Someone who's sincere would, IMO.
>> If the person trying to communicate with you seems sincere, then I don't think
>> that is rude at all.
That's probably where we differ. To me, ignorance can (and does) overshadow sincerity. I mean, how hard is it really to ask first instead of blindly assuming every foreigner-looking person speaks English? Someone who's sincere would, IMO.
> だいはどさん
I agree with hinga. How can lack of awareness ever be misconstrued as insincerity? Just because a friend, for instance, gives you unsolicited advice rather than listening to you doesn't mean they don't want to help you; they just may not be aware of the best way to do it.
just because your paradigm is different than theirs that doesn't automatically make their intentions insincere.
I agree with hinga. How can lack of awareness ever be misconstrued as insincerity? Just because a friend, for instance, gives you unsolicited advice rather than listening to you doesn't mean they don't want to help you; they just may not be aware of the best way to do it.
just because your paradigm is different than theirs that doesn't automatically make their intentions insincere.
HingaSPL> i just think its cute that you think its all cool when people who approach you try so hard, but if someone else views it as annoying or rude, you think they are an idiot.
i was talking with my friend, shes half japanese/ persian and looks more persian in my presence, anyway, we were having a nice chat, just the 2 of us, kinda personal, about future plans and whatnot, and this older japanese man just walks up and starts his Engrish barrage of questions.... a few questions into it, he was getting annoying and showed zero intention of leaving.
it was kinda like we were watching tv, and in the middle of the show, without invitation and without asking, this dude changed the channel and insist we stay there on his channel.
would we be idiots to be bummed out?? yes or no?
i was talking with my friend, shes half japanese/ persian and looks more persian in my presence, anyway, we were having a nice chat, just the 2 of us, kinda personal, about future plans and whatnot, and this older japanese man just walks up and starts his Engrish barrage of questions.... a few questions into it, he was getting annoying and showed zero intention of leaving.
it was kinda like we were watching tv, and in the middle of the show, without invitation and without asking, this dude changed the channel and insist we stay there on his channel.
would we be idiots to be bummed out?? yes or no?
> kyleさん
I think that's a fair point. I can certainly relate to that.
However, while he is being selfish, i don't think he is intentionally being rude. It takes a lot of nerve to approach a complete stranger and try to converse in a language that you don't have complete mastery over. Often, the person winds up neglecting other concerns.
Have you ever tried directly but politely letting them know you were having an important conversation? Unless the person is drunk and belligerent, i've found it effective.
I think that's a fair point. I can certainly relate to that.
However, while he is being selfish, i don't think he is intentionally being rude. It takes a lot of nerve to approach a complete stranger and try to converse in a language that you don't have complete mastery over. Often, the person winds up neglecting other concerns.
Have you ever tried directly but politely letting them know you were having an important conversation? Unless the person is drunk and belligerent, i've found it effective.
♔アシュリー> youre pretty sure... well, thats why im asking for clarification. i am just so dying to know, oh i really wanna know if im an idiot (not that i care, really, but i do because its kinda interesting to think i was an idiot to be put off by the channel changer)
hijodeganas> dude in my story was not rude in the sense he wasnt mean. he was curious about us and, well, he then started rambling about international relations (my friend is half persian, people seem to like to give her their opinion on current events) and ya, it got to the point where i said to my friend, "hey your food is getting cold" and the channel changer just kinda abruptly stopped his speech and left.
i think its called KY in japanese
hijodeganas> dude in my story was not rude in the sense he wasnt mean. he was curious about us and, well, he then started rambling about international relations (my friend is half persian, people seem to like to give her their opinion on current events) and ya, it got to the point where i said to my friend, "hey your food is getting cold" and the channel changer just kinda abruptly stopped his speech and left.
i think its called KY in japanese
hijodeganas (#103)
>> just because your paradigm is different than theirs that doesn't automatically
>> make their intentions insincere.
Of course, they may very well mean to be sincere. The issue is that ignorance (or "lack of awareness") can, and IMO does, give you the wrong impression. If they don't care how you feel when they speak to you in English, all power to them. They *think* they are sincere. On the other hand, if their ignorance offends you, will it matter how sincere they mean to be?
And like I said, how hard is it to ask first? If one doesn't even know that not all "gaijin's" speak English, that's a LOT of ignorance in today's world.
>> just because your paradigm is different than theirs that doesn't automatically
>> make their intentions insincere.
Of course, they may very well mean to be sincere. The issue is that ignorance (or "lack of awareness") can, and IMO does, give you the wrong impression. If they don't care how you feel when they speak to you in English, all power to them. They *think* they are sincere. On the other hand, if their ignorance offends you, will it matter how sincere they mean to be?
And like I said, how hard is it to ask first? If one doesn't even know that not all "gaijin's" speak English, that's a LOT of ignorance in today's world.
Hinga 98>> taht is not what I said, that is you reading in haste, and because I don't agree with you, reading what you want to read instead of what I actually said. I said those are the 3 times that people do NOT use contractions (although I left out that people also do it for emphasis). Then, RIGHT AFTER THAT, I said that since I did not believe that you were trying to do any of those 3, that that was why I thought it sounded weird. I did not say that I thought you were trying to sound smarter than anyone else. If that's what you read, you read incorrectly. Also, you call me an idiot, but then talk about me conjuring up stories, when I haven't actually done that at all. I was debating the stories OTHER PEOPLE posted. Way to pay attention.
Hijodeganas (100)
>>>I personally see nothing rude about the employee's behavior. Have you considered that she may have been ordered by her boss to flip the menu any time she saw a foreigner?
>>Your friend had a self righteous agenda and she didn't comply, so he got upset. end of story.
Once again, not my friend. Don't know the person. This was a story that someone else brought up, and I was commenting on it. Second, as I also stated (maybe you missed that post and were commenting on one of my earlier ones), I don't think it's necessarily rude because yes, she may have been ordered by her boss to flip the menu. That is not the rude part. What she did that was rude was ignoring the customer as he ordered. The customer was talking to her, ordering his food. She is a cashier. It is her job to listen to the customer's order, and to ring them up. She did not do so, instead focusing on the fact that they were foreign, and ignored what they were saying. That is rude. Flipping a menu is not rude. Ignoring a customer because you assume they don't speak your language when they are already speaking in your language is. End of story.
Hijodeganas (100)
>>>I personally see nothing rude about the employee's behavior. Have you considered that she may have been ordered by her boss to flip the menu any time she saw a foreigner?
>>Your friend had a self righteous agenda and she didn't comply, so he got upset. end of story.
Once again, not my friend. Don't know the person. This was a story that someone else brought up, and I was commenting on it. Second, as I also stated (maybe you missed that post and were commenting on one of my earlier ones), I don't think it's necessarily rude because yes, she may have been ordered by her boss to flip the menu. That is not the rude part. What she did that was rude was ignoring the customer as he ordered. The customer was talking to her, ordering his food. She is a cashier. It is her job to listen to the customer's order, and to ring them up. She did not do so, instead focusing on the fact that they were foreign, and ignored what they were saying. That is rude. Flipping a menu is not rude. Ignoring a customer because you assume they don't speak your language when they are already speaking in your language is. End of story.
Re. Menu flip: Many Japanese people seem to have this mental blockage, which makes them unable to comprehend that some gaijin speak Japanese.
When they eventually get that you're speaking Japanese, things are fine.
I was in Nara one time and went to McDonalds. In front of me was an American family, obviously tourists. The menu had been flipped but there was still confusion. I stepped in and helped them out. The server was so grateful! He flipped the menu back to Japanese for me (somewhat ironically).
On the flip side,I was in MrDo 2 weeks ago (a branch I often frequent) and there was a new staff member. She seemed to be REALLY flustered when serving me and screwed up the order, gave me incorrect change and forgot to give me back my point card (all grave mistakes in Japan) and when she finally understood what had happened she didn't even say sorry (no big deal for me, but super rude by Japanese standards).Afterwards the manager came over to apologise.
This shit happens in Japan.Build a bridge and get over it
When they eventually get that you're speaking Japanese, things are fine.
I was in Nara one time and went to McDonalds. In front of me was an American family, obviously tourists. The menu had been flipped but there was still confusion. I stepped in and helped them out. The server was so grateful! He flipped the menu back to Japanese for me (somewhat ironically).
On the flip side,I was in MrDo 2 weeks ago (a branch I often frequent) and there was a new staff member. She seemed to be REALLY flustered when serving me and screwed up the order, gave me incorrect change and forgot to give me back my point card (all grave mistakes in Japan) and when she finally understood what had happened she didn't even say sorry (no big deal for me, but super rude by Japanese standards).Afterwards the manager came over to apologise.
This shit happens in Japan.Build a bridge and get over it
マル- It's drama queens like you that make life so difficult. `Life is too damned short to bitch about every little thing. Speaking of which, I'm done here, tired of beating a dead horse, got better things to do like play with my kids.
And kyle, to answer your question. Yes, you are indeed an Idiot, congratulations. You and マル should move in together and live a miserable life together griping about every little thing that comes along.
Ｊ美ー AWESOME quote!
"This shit happens in Japan.Build a bridge and get over it"
bye bye
And kyle, to answer your question. Yes, you are indeed an Idiot, congratulations. You and マル should move in together and live a miserable life together griping about every little thing that comes along.
Ｊ美ー AWESOME quote!
"This shit happens in Japan.Build a bridge and get over it"
bye bye
Just for the record, I am from Georgia, and we are probably from the same America...if you call the southern states America.
But I am about as metropolitan as they come. 
I never rode the train in Atlanta, so it was a bad example for me to use. If I did, I would probably worry more about my wallet getting stolen than starting interesting conversations with anyone...
The only situation that ever arises in which I became a little annoyed at someone asking me about English is when I am in a hurry and it's like the cashier at 711 or something. There is this really nice old lady who works at the Yamakazi by the school I work at on Thursday whois always asking me questions about English...in Japanese...
Sometimes I don't have time to chit-chat before my class.
But that's about it.
If any of you go to McDonalds, please don't give the cashier a hard time.
Smile and say "Thank you very much." "What time do you get off of work?"
I also like Ｊ美ー's quote.
But I am about as metropolitan as they come.
I never rode the train in Atlanta, so it was a bad example for me to use. If I did, I would probably worry more about my wallet getting stolen than starting interesting conversations with anyone...
The only situation that ever arises in which I became a little annoyed at someone asking me about English is when I am in a hurry and it's like the cashier at 711 or something. There is this really nice old lady who works at the Yamakazi by the school I work at on Thursday whois always asking me questions about English...in Japanese...
Sometimes I don't have time to chit-chat before my class. But that's about it.
If any of you go to McDonalds, please don't give the cashier a hard time.
Smile and say "Thank you very much." "What time do you get off of work?"
I also like Ｊ美ー's quote.
I can't really comment because I never experienced this. Even though I was in Tokyo. Maybe it was because I was mainly in areas with either a lot of foreigners or not many. (Azubu-Juban and Kagoshima, also where my dorm was and the dorm was all foreigners.) I think maybe it would generally not be annoying except for the assumption that all foreigners speak English, which can be annoying I hear, and also if you get people speaking English to you so often that you never get to use English. Like others say, a lot of people come to Japan because of wanting to learn and practice Japanese so if you are in Japan and everyone you actually speak to is speaking English to you, it would be frustrating. Not as individual experiences but as a whole. Like I said, I've never had this happen to me though. Even though my Japanese was not good. Maybe because I do not "look like a foreigner" in the general sense or maybe I just didn't look approachable or maybe just because I'm female. Who knows though.
on the flip side, i heard a story of a guy, non-japanese greeted a non-japanese in english. the victim of the greeting said "why did you greet me in english?" to which he responded, "cuz the book in your pocket has an english title."
i feel a slight irritation when somebody out of the blue speaks english, like when im spacing out at a cafe and im engrished. but lets face it, we who who speak english shouldnt take it out on them cause after all, WE DO SPEAK IT.
its the grace and tact we display after being approached that counts. and thats just plain ol' people skills. some got it, some dont, in both cases.
i feel a slight irritation when somebody out of the blue speaks english, like when im spacing out at a cafe and im engrished. but lets face it, we who who speak english shouldnt take it out on them cause after all, WE DO SPEAK IT.
its the grace and tact we display after being approached that counts. and thats just plain ol' people skills. some got it, some dont, in both cases.
Cool topic guys. I guess I would have to say I feel happy to talk to people in any language. I just do not always want to be a teacher to everyone all the time. I love to talk so if someone can speak well then I am happy to talk to them if they do not have the level I think it would be hard to keep the conversation going if the person can't really speak but I think the people that speak to mein English with out knowing that I am comfortable in Japanese are only trying to be polite. If some one would rather I speak to them in English than in an other language then I am cool with that..
- mixiユーザー
- ログインしてコメントしよう！
|
|
|
|
☆ENGLISH ONLY☆ 更新情報
-
最新のアンケート
