Kinda curious what everyone thinks about this. Makes me start to think twice where to put my money these days....
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#11 SealPool I don`t think everyone actually understands how fucked up that news is. I had a Japanese friend that was warning that this was coming and I tried not to believe it. I hope this is not really true. First they take over the financial institutions and now this? This is very very serious.
I read this in a publication today... is it true ?
IRS IS A PRIVATELY OWNED CORPORATION
The IRS is not a government agency, and that is why IRS tax guides
often call the money you report that you "owe," a "VOLUNTARY TAX!"
Ted Gunderson, retired head of the FBI's Los Angeles headquarters, the
FBI's second largest field office in '79, gave up a copy of the Internal
Revenue Service's Certificate of Incorporation.
I was shocked to learn that the IRS was incorporated in Puerto Rico.
IRS IS A PRIVATELY OWNED CORPORATION
The IRS is not a government agency, and that is why IRS tax guides
often call the money you report that you "owe," a "VOLUNTARY TAX!"
Ted Gunderson, retired head of the FBI's Los Angeles headquarters, the
FBI's second largest field office in '79, gave up a copy of the Internal
Revenue Service's Certificate of Incorporation.
I was shocked to learn that the IRS was incorporated in Puerto Rico.
I think sadly it probably needs to happen. Too many people are
facing ruin to do nothing. I say sadly because it always seems
to happen like this. The executives pay themselves ridiculous
salaries. Get performance bonuses even when they don't perform
and then when the wheels fall off the government steps in and
throws them a lifeline.
Short selling is ridiculous. It's market manipulation and should
be a felony crime. Traders who engage in it destroy companies
and families so they can line their pockets.
I'd like to say let it burn, to be honest it's what they deserve
but it wouldn't just destroy them, it would destroy a lot of
innocent people....and the people who are to blame probably
have enough stashed away that they'll be able to get off reasonably
intact anyway.
facing ruin to do nothing. I say sadly because it always seems
to happen like this. The executives pay themselves ridiculous
salaries. Get performance bonuses even when they don't perform
and then when the wheels fall off the government steps in and
throws them a lifeline.
Short selling is ridiculous. It's market manipulation and should
be a felony crime. Traders who engage in it destroy companies
and families so they can line their pockets.
I'd like to say let it burn, to be honest it's what they deserve
but it wouldn't just destroy them, it would destroy a lot of
innocent people....and the people who are to blame probably
have enough stashed away that they'll be able to get off reasonably
intact anyway.
>>one thing interesting. go to CNN website. they are holding some votes. most people wanna see these companies die, no bailout for the mistake banks made, hell no from their pockets lol
Actually lawmakers all over the US are getting an unprecedented
amount of calls against this bailout. The school of though is that
much like personal finance, you don't take out more credit when
your ass is already in deep debt. I agree with this.
The market needs to be corrected, naturally. Home prices are coming down
but we need to remember it was much too high during the bubble. It
will hurt badly but better now than later.
What I find sad is noone is even mentioning our biggest expenditure:
the total waste of money that is Iraq. If spending in Iraq was
ended, it would have an immediate positive impact on our economy.
Total spending on Iraq so far, not ocunting human cost, is around
$600billion btw.
BTW...anyone who can vote Republican this time around is out of their
minds. This coming from an independent.
Actually lawmakers all over the US are getting an unprecedented
amount of calls against this bailout. The school of though is that
much like personal finance, you don't take out more credit when
your ass is already in deep debt. I agree with this.
The market needs to be corrected, naturally. Home prices are coming down
but we need to remember it was much too high during the bubble. It
will hurt badly but better now than later.
What I find sad is noone is even mentioning our biggest expenditure:
the total waste of money that is Iraq. If spending in Iraq was
ended, it would have an immediate positive impact on our economy.
Total spending on Iraq so far, not ocunting human cost, is around
$600billion btw.
BTW...anyone who can vote Republican this time around is out of their
minds. This coming from an independent.
#20 is right....
And the war is for sure the biggest waste of tax payers money ever. Iraq will never be a place that anyone wants to live. Look at history. The time to turn our backs on that problem has long
passed. Sometimes cashing out of a bad investment policy and paying the fine.... is better than
continuing to pay into a hopeless cause. At least you know what you lost and avoid loosing any more. That is the war in Iraq.
And the war is for sure the biggest waste of tax payers money ever. Iraq will never be a place that anyone wants to live. Look at history. The time to turn our backs on that problem has long
passed. Sometimes cashing out of a bad investment policy and paying the fine.... is better than
continuing to pay into a hopeless cause. At least you know what you lost and avoid loosing any more. That is the war in Iraq.
Iraq could be fixed quite easily. In 1921 England drew some random
lines on a map and presto! Iraq. The only way Iraq will work is with
an iron fist. The Kurds hate the Sunni and the Shia; the Shia hate the
Sunni and the Kurds, the Sunni hate the Kurds and the Shia.
Draw some new lines that separate the 3 groups and 90% of the problem
disappears.
lines on a map and presto! Iraq. The only way Iraq will work is with
an iron fist. The Kurds hate the Sunni and the Shia; the Shia hate the
Sunni and the Kurds, the Sunni hate the Kurds and the Shia.
Draw some new lines that separate the 3 groups and 90% of the problem
disappears.
This financial disaster is already affecting us in Japan. Business has slowed, people salary workers have less overtime and part time hours are being cut back. The numbers and going to get worse. Hopefully when this "bailout" gets approved, the Japan market will pick up but i hear people in Japan are very uneasy about their economy because they feel the new prime minister is going to overspend their taxes. Anyone else hearing these rumors?
＞＞Iraq could be fixed quite easily. In 1921 England drew some random
lines on a map and presto! Iraq. The only way Iraq will work is with
an iron fist. The Kurds hate the Sunni and the Shia; the Shia hate the
Sunni and the Kurds, the Sunni hate the Kurds and the Shia.
Draw some new lines that separate the 3 groups and 90% of the problem
disappears.
What we really need to do is get their education levels up to 2008
standards, instead of being stuck in the middle ages.
lines on a map and presto! Iraq. The only way Iraq will work is with
an iron fist. The Kurds hate the Sunni and the Shia; the Shia hate the
Sunni and the Kurds, the Sunni hate the Kurds and the Shia.
Draw some new lines that separate the 3 groups and 90% of the problem
disappears.
What we really need to do is get their education levels up to 2008
standards, instead of being stuck in the middle ages.
@ Seal Pool
wow man thats scary. Honestly doesn't give me much more comfort especially after seeing "Eagle Eye"
@TokyoOG
Thats not much of a surprise cuz the Federal Reserve is also privately owned.
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/Federal-Reserve.html
http://www.freedomclubusa.com/federal_reserve_system
wow man thats scary. Honestly doesn't give me much more comfort especially after seeing "Eagle Eye"
@TokyoOG
Thats not much of a surprise cuz the Federal Reserve is also privately owned.
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/Federal-Reserve.html
http://www.freedomclubusa.com/federal_reserve_system
This is also only a first step. It will hopefully bring
back a little confidence and free up some cash but even
though it sounds like a lot, $700 billion would be like
trying to bail water out of the titanic with a thimble.
What might be called the elephant in the room is the level
of household debt in the U.S.. I'm not 100% but I think
it is something like 3 times GDP per person. That's a bit
of a worry.
back a little confidence and free up some cash but even
though it sounds like a lot, $700 billion would be like
trying to bail water out of the titanic with a thimble.
What might be called the elephant in the room is the level
of household debt in the U.S.. I'm not 100% but I think
it is something like 3 times GDP per person. That's a bit
of a worry.
So the bail out plan was voted down and denied. although the politicians in japan are predicting that it won't be too much of a threat to financial stability, the Nikkei yesterday went down △480yen, which came out to be the LOWEST Record this year. the plan voted down just tells how the power of Bush has weakened in the last few months of his term.
I think that the U.S. Government should consult economists before trying to create a bill to help the economy. The way they were going about to "fix" the problem would do nothing in the long run. They need to consult professionals and look back on history to figure out what to do. This is starting to look a lot like the Great Depression and the government is not going about fixing the problem at all. I am glad that they shot down the bill and hopefully they will come up with a better plan that would work more to fix the underlying problem that the U.S.'s economy is facing and not just provide temporary relief from it.
This article suggested that Paulson is wrong. there are better alternatives but the financial institution executives are less beneficial. Take a look and speak out!!
Do not yield to another Bush administration attempts to use public fear.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20081001a3.html
Do not yield to another Bush administration attempts to use public fear.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20081001a3.html
22> WaMu was not bailed out by the government. It was shut down by them, so no government money was spent to pay for his exit package.
20> Short selling is an essential component of keeping a market liquid and efficient. One trader by him/herself cannot bury a company intothe ground, at least not anymore. It is not evil and it is not a felony crime. All the developed markets have short sale provisions and in the US it was not a free for all either, short sales are regulated. By banning it now, you send the message that the US is not sound and the damage will not be limited to the stock market.
20> Short selling is an essential component of keeping a market liquid and efficient. One trader by him/herself cannot bury a company intothe ground, at least not anymore. It is not evil and it is not a felony crime. All the developed markets have short sale provisions and in the US it was not a free for all either, short sales are regulated. By banning it now, you send the message that the US is not sound and the damage will not be limited to the stock market.
>> 20> Short selling is an essential
>> component of keeping a market liquid
>> and efficient. One trader by him/herself
>> cannot bury a company intothe ground,
>> at least not anymore. It is not evil
>> and it is not a felony crime.
It's not a felony crime, but it should be.
It is fundamentally market manipulation. That's
fine. If you want to sell a stock worth $10 for
$1.50 to drive down the price go right ahead.
But use your own money.
I would add that it can be a felony crime. The
market regulators are constantly on the look out
for big movements in stock and they always talk
about prosecuting people who engage in it...but
the government pulled out all their teeth lest
they offend the people who are making big donations
to their re-election campaigns.
>> component of keeping a market liquid
>> and efficient. One trader by him/herself
>> cannot bury a company intothe ground,
>> at least not anymore. It is not evil
>> and it is not a felony crime.
It's not a felony crime, but it should be.
It is fundamentally market manipulation. That's
fine. If you want to sell a stock worth $10 for
$1.50 to drive down the price go right ahead.
But use your own money.
I would add that it can be a felony crime. The
market regulators are constantly on the look out
for big movements in stock and they always talk
about prosecuting people who engage in it...but
the government pulled out all their teeth lest
they offend the people who are making big donations
to their re-election campaigns.
Market regulators look at both buys and sells for market manipulation. It usually occurs into the closing tick.
Also, when you sell short, you do use your own money, as you have to post margin (if you are a retail client usually 100% of the value you sold short) and you usually have to secure stock borrow. This prevents the market from selling more than the free float. Also if a 10 USD valued stock is trading at 1.50 then natural buy demand will eventually raise it. If it stays there, then the market thinks that the actual value is 1.50. If the value of a stock is less than book value of the company or the Enterprise value, then usually it is a buy. If people aren't buying it there might be a good reason.
Don't blame the short sellers for the recent slew of companies going under, blame BASEL II.
Also, when you sell short, you do use your own money, as you have to post margin (if you are a retail client usually 100% of the value you sold short) and you usually have to secure stock borrow. This prevents the market from selling more than the free float. Also if a 10 USD valued stock is trading at 1.50 then natural buy demand will eventually raise it. If it stays there, then the market thinks that the actual value is 1.50. If the value of a stock is less than book value of the company or the Enterprise value, then usually it is a buy. If people aren't buying it there might be a good reason.
Don't blame the short sellers for the recent slew of companies going under, blame BASEL II.
"In finance, short selling or "shorting" is the practice of selling
a financial instrument that the seller borrows first (does not own),
and then purchasing it later to "cover the short". Short-sellers
attempt to profit from an expected decline in the price of a security,
such as a stock or a bond, in contrast to the ordinary investment
practice, where an investor "goes long" by purchasing a security
in the hope the price will rise. Typically, the short-seller will "borrow"
or "rent" the securities to be sold, and later repurchase identical
securities for return to the lender"
Wikipedia
a financial instrument that the seller borrows first (does not own),
and then purchasing it later to "cover the short". Short-sellers
attempt to profit from an expected decline in the price of a security,
such as a stock or a bond, in contrast to the ordinary investment
practice, where an investor "goes long" by purchasing a security
in the hope the price will rise. Typically, the short-seller will "borrow"
or "rent" the securities to be sold, and later repurchase identical
securities for return to the lender"
Wikipedia
A close friend of mine sent me this email recently. It really makes a lot of sense...
---> I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to all Americans as a 'Dividend'.
To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+
0D
Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child.. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals to a hefty '$425,000.00'
My plan is to give $425,000 t o every person 18+ as a 'Dividend' Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.
Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25.5 Billion right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife have $595,000.00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family? Pay off your mortgage – 'housing crisis solved' Repay college loans – 'a great boost to new grads' Put away money for college – 'it'll be there' Save it in a bank – 'create money to loan to entrepreneurs' Buy a new car – 'create jobs' Invest in the market – 'capital drives growth' Pay for your parent's medical insurance = 'health care improves'
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company
If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out
If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+
As for AIG – liquidate it and Sell off its parts. Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here's my rationale. We deserve it and 'AIG doesn't' we were not invited to the last 10 years of 'party time' bonuses
And remember, this plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Make Sense?
---> I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to all Americans as a 'Dividend'.
To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+
0D
Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child.. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals to a hefty '$425,000.00'
My plan is to give $425,000 t o every person 18+ as a 'Dividend' Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.
Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25.5 Billion right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife have $595,000.00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family? Pay off your mortgage – 'housing crisis solved' Repay college loans – 'a great boost to new grads' Put away money for college – 'it'll be there' Save it in a bank – 'create money to loan to entrepreneurs' Buy a new car – 'create jobs' Invest in the market – 'capital drives growth' Pay for your parent's medical insurance = 'health care improves'
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company
If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out
If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+
As for AIG – liquidate it and Sell off its parts. Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here's my rationale. We deserve it and 'AIG doesn't' we were not invited to the last 10 years of 'party time' bonuses
And remember, this plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Make Sense?
I could be completely wrong, but I think the main problem here in the US is the greed and lack of accountability. But as to which is causing the other it's kind of a chicken vs egg argument.
I could write a small novel that would basically say that the two are interlocked and will always cause a death spiral. You can almost set your watch to Wall Street screwing the pooch every few years, and it all boils down to those two things.
I would argue that the real problem here is the sheer lack of financial education in any school system worldwide. Imagine a world where personal finance was taught in high school and college. People might understand how a mortgage works, what a stock/bond is, how credit cards work... the list could go on.
I'm sure a few pessimists out there would say that the powers that be have an incentive to keep the public so ... ignorant.... though.
I could write a small novel that would basically say that the two are interlocked and will always cause a death spiral. You can almost set your watch to Wall Street screwing the pooch every few years, and it all boils down to those two things.
I would argue that the real problem here is the sheer lack of financial education in any school system worldwide. Imagine a world where personal finance was taught in high school and college. People might understand how a mortgage works, what a stock/bond is, how credit cards work... the list could go on.
I'm sure a few pessimists out there would say that the powers that be have an incentive to keep the public so ... ignorant.... though.
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