☆ENGLISH ONLY☆コミュのSteps for Coming To Japan to Live and Work?

Soooo you couldn't handle the "advanced" classes in high school, and now you want to come to Japan, where people work extremely long hours in extremely competitive work environments? You describe yourself as "laid-back" in your profile. Laid-back people without a college education don't get visas.

You have effectively no chance of getting a work visa. As is, no company will sponsor you for a visa without at least a bachelors degree. Your best chance would be to try to get into a Japanese vocational school, and then try to get job once you're done with that, but I honestly doubt that they would take someone without 12 years of education (I'm not even sure if you're allowed to get college visa without a high school degree), GED or no. Maybe, and I do mean MAYBE if you were a truly incredible programmer or web designer, who spoke excellent Japanese, you might have the slightest bit of chance, but I seriously doubt it.

Find a Japanese girl to marry. At this point that is virtually your only chance of ever working in Japan.

What Durandal said might sound harsh, but he's absolutely right.

Japan is a very closed society. They allow foreigners to live there if they're useful, not just because they want to.

My advice, get a job in America and go on vacation in Japan as often as you can afford.

>Candiman

I'm the one who lives in Tokyo and drinks a lot. Not the OP.

I happen to be laid back, but there is a difference between personal attitude and a work attitude, I take work seriously, I'm not laid about it at all.

I realise that dropping out after 11th grade and getting a GED was a bit of a wrongful decision. And I realise it may have jeopardized my future quite a bit.. But I also think it's wrong to automatically assume that just because I did this that I can't handle actual work or a college program...

This is something I've been wanting to do for years and I have been working at it...

Im going to do college somehow and get my bachelors degree in something in the IT field, and I realise it takes work and it's not easy and that it will take alot of time, and I am willing to give 100% into that..

But as I stated before, I think it's wrong to judge me based on my decisions and automatically assume that I am like every other drop out.

All I did was take the information I had at hand. I realize that there is a big difference between personal attitude and work attitude, but when I see someone say that they dropped out of high school, and have a "laid-back attitude", I'm forced to take what I'm given at face value. I may come off as harsh in what I say, but I'm not trying to make personal a judgement on you, I'm just telling you how hard it will be for someone in your situation to work and live in Japan.

If senior level classes in high school were too hard for you, consider this: in Japan, high school is generally much harder and more competitive than it is in the US, and there's a whole country of people here who got through it nonetheless.

I know that how hard you worked in high school and how hard you'll work at other things may very well be different. I almost dropped out of high school myself because I hated it so much, but now I do almost nothing but study (and drink when I have the time, which I often don't). Honestly, the very best thing you could right now is see if there's some way to go back to high school and get your diploma.

If what I say comes off as harsh, keep in mind that the Japanese government will be much, much harsher than me. I'm not trying to judge you as a person. I'm not calling you stupid or lazy in any way; I'm just trying to impart to you how difficult it will be for you to do what you want considering your current situation.

Man i think you should fuck off what anyone else thinks about your current position and what type of person you are...Laid back people can work too...

I dont understand how any of these post's have helped you...they all seem to be putting you down which i dont quite understand...Being a forum and you want help but all that people seem to bedoing is shitting on you from a distance...gotta love moral support.

Get your college education, learn Japanese whilst at college, Look up where you wanna live, What job you want, Make sure you have the qualifications to get it (If not study while your over there), At least apply for a visa, if you dont get it, find out why and change it, move out there, get a shit hot job and do what you want.

i dont see the harm in trying man! Get your stuff sorted out and dont take everyones negativity to heart, If you accept these things above you might aswell kill yourself ... Im exactly the same as you man ... Im not into the whole IT thing but you know each to our own.

'Candiman' Makes some good points towards the end of the post, Your gonna have to work hard, but you know that and you understand whats involved, so do it.

I dont advise marrying a japanese woman for the sake of you being allowed to live there... That is borderline retarded, Dont mean to be funny Durandal, but if your willing to marry someonefor the sake of being able to live in their country you really have no right to put this guy downin the slightest...

Good luck man!

I'd recommemd coming to Japan on one of the English teaching programs. They will take care of your visa and housing usually. Once you are here, then you can start making moves to do what you want - study Japanese, and network.

Also, since the English teaching contracts are short, it will let you see if you really want to live here, before you jump into the deep end head first.

All the posters here are correct (to varying derees).
No-one is giving you a hard time - just telling it like it is.

Graduate from high school, then on to university, get you bachelor's degree and then head to Japan.

So... see you again in 4 years, ne?

Step 1: choose any of the following options:
* Get a four-year university degree.
* Marry someone Japanese


For all the steps after that, you have a lot of latitude. For the first one, you don't.

Get your degree. Don't worry about other things until that's finished.

Protip: Take plenty of Japanese courses at college. If you're genuinely interested it will be easy grades. But don't major in it!

Yup, without an advanced degree (BA at minimum) the Japanese Immigration office won't even look at your application. There are too many non-professional or less-educated people who desperately want to live in Japan. Japan looks at two potentials:

1. Potential to be able to pay taxes. (which is what they are really concerned about). They figure that the more educated you are, the better job you will get, hence the ability to get a higher income and pay more taxes to the government.

2. Potential to become a good citizen (ie not a troublemaker). In their eyes, an educated person with a good income is less likely to commit crimes or become homeless. There are tons of foreigners currently in Japan who come here with very little, expecting to make a lot of money, but wind up being broke, homeless, and/or lose their aility to fund their trip home. Japan then has to fork out the money to deport them back to their home country which cost tax payers billions.

The cold reality is that without a college degree or an equivalent talent or skill, your changes of entering Japan as a legal resident is close to nil. Its even difficult for those with really advanced degrees like a pH D to get in without demonstrating that they can self sustain themselves (some degree of Japanese proficiency or ties to those who can help).

As someone mentioned, you always can try. But IMHO, rather than wasting your time trying to get in under your current circumstance, if you are REALLY serious about living here, get a HS diploma and a BA. Study and polish you Japanese proficiency in the process. Visit Japan a lot and show interest. (The stamps on your passport will show your interest in Japan) If you start now, you could probably do it in 3 to 5 years depending on how well you do, which will most likely be a lot less time it would probably take to get around Japanese bureaucracy to get into Japan, and with better results.

And as my final 2 cents,

"I had to quit school because I couldn't handle all the advanced classes and I had all my basic classes done"

This type of attitude won't help at all. There are no easy ways around things. Don't know how old you are, but if you haven't already learned, there is no such thing as a free pass in life. You choose your own destiny. If you are serious about doing this, go back and get the diploma and the degree.

Sorry, I posted before I read your comments:

===============================

"I happen to be laid back, but there is a difference between personal attitude and a work attitude, I take work seriously, I'm not laid about it at all.

I realise that dropping out after 11th grade and getting a GED was a bit of a wrongful decision. And I realise it may have jeopardized my future quite a bit.. But I also think it's wrong to automatically assume that just because I did this that I can't handle actual work or a college program...

This is something I've been wanting to do for years and I have been working at it...

Im going to do college somehow and get my bachelors degree in something in the IT field, and I realise it takes work and it's not easy and that it will take alot of time, and I am willing to give 100% into that..

But as I stated before, I think it's wrong to judge me based on my decisions and automatically assume that I am like every other drop out."

============================

Its good that you have somewhat mapped out your future and that you have a plan in life. Now the key is to stay focused and not to give up when times get tough. Getting your degree is only the first step, because after that you will have a very long bout with Japanese immigration who are going to be much tougher, more judgmental, and less tolerant than the people who posted here. To give you an idea of how tough it is (and not to discourage you) When I first tried to get my long term residency in Japan, I was told that it would be impossible, and to basically go back to my own country and work there.

Here is what I had at the time:
-US citizenship (supposedly easier than others)
-relatives who are Japanese citizens
-a BA in Japanese Literature
-Fluency in Japanese and English (read speak and write)
-lived in Japan as a child
-a place to live in Japan and financial support

This is a proverbial "silver spoon" and basically one would think its a guarantee entrance in, but it wasn't. I fought the system for nearly 2 years and I basically had to get my Japanese grandmother to be a guarantor (a person who assumes all legal and financial responsibility for EVERYTHING I do), and it was only after that, that they let me in under a one-year visa. I then worked my tail off advancing my skills and my career, paid taxes up the wazoo, and finally was able to get my PR 2 years ago after being in Japan for nearly 12 years.

So its an uphill battle all the way, and having a quitters attitude will not help you in any way shape of form. So make sure that you are ready for it, and good luck!

>8

I wasn't suggesting that he actually marry someone just to get in Japan. That comment was made ironically to underline how limited his options were without a college degree.

Also, you're right, you can be laid back and still work... *if* you're in your own country or once you have a work visa and a steady job (maybe; in a lot of jobs in Japan, being laid back is pretty much against the rules). If you want to go to another country and work, especially if it's one that's as difficult to get in to as Japan, you really can't afford to be laid back, because there are literally tens of thousands of people who aren't laid back, who work almost every minute of every day to get in Japan. If you're laid back, they will beat you. This is true of anything, but especially of IT jobs.

One final bit of advice for the OP. Since you're in the US, you're probably a native speaker of english. Even if you want a job in programming or web design, it would be a good idea to get into Japan as an English teacher (or if you have good Japanese a CIR, probably through the JET program). Once you're in with a work visa, you can teach english while making some contacts and looking around for the kind of job you really want.

For all that I may have come off harsh, I really do wish you good luck. Hopefully I'll see you here in a few years.

It's not my fault that I couldn't do the advanced classes.. the school I attended from 7th-10th grade gave me credits in classes I didn't even do, and they bumped me up to these advanced classes without any previous knowledge of the other classes that needed to be taken to be in par with them... and when I left the school for home schooling, my home school said I could not take back the credits so I was basically stuck in these and I couldn't do it.. that's why it was hard for me, it was just too much..

I'm sorry if I'm making that sound like an excuse, but it's actually the truth..

>17
Well, that does suck. At any rate, just get through college and work hard and you *can* do it.

>18

Thank you very much, believe me, I want this to work, so I am going to work hard at it until I can acheive it.

>19

Once again... see you again in 4 years.

Ok.... I think you should start taking college classes at your local Jr. college and then transfer the credits to a four year university. I say this for two reasons.

One: Jr. college classes will give you an idea of what to expect in a four year university. If it is tough for you.... just keep going. Only the classes you pass will transfer, but! The univeristy will see the transcripts. So if you work hard and pass most of the classes then a 4 year university will be no problem.

Second: It is cheaper! After you graduate with your degree no one will ask if you went the first 2 years at a Jr. college. (I should have done that...hahaha hind sight is 20/20)

The last thing I want say is ... set goals. Make them reasonable.
Set short term goals like... starting college.
Set long term goals like... making it to Japan.
Think about all of the short term stuff you have to do to get to the long term goals.
Reward yourself for reaching each goal.... go out for sushi to remind yourself what you goal is.

MOST import about any goal is NEVER lose focus on the main goal and don't listen to the people who don't believe in you. You must believe in yourself... what others think doesn't really matter unless you listen to them and take it to heart. My advice is don't.
Don't fall in love and make a baby..... you will lose everything.

Follow these instructions and you can do just about anything you want.... even coming to Japan, if that is what you want.

But that is just what I think.... Good Luck
Dennis

Yeah!! Ganbatte!! Nice Japanese word!! I like this and I often use it!!
Sounds like you're ahving a very difficult time...
Sorry to hear all about up here....
I'm not so sure what to advice for you...
Just wanted to say...cheer up!! Go for it!! Some day come to Japan!!
Between US and Japan no working holiday visa, so better for you to get a collge degree if you want to teach English here in Japan...
Yes.., first you can get a sightseeing visa ..but when you want to get a teaching job, a company can't apply for you to attain a working visa unless you have a collge degree as far as I know.
Take your time!!
You're still young!!
You'll have plenty of time ahead, I guess!!

Yeah I won't expect to be in Japan for some years, but I already have been saving money, I have a couple thousand USD saved up, I am going to take some vacations to Japan as well just so I can get a feel for the culture and the way of living so I do not have a culture shock for the real thing.

Thanks for all of your support guys, I'm very confident.

Culture shock usually isn't THAT bad if you've already studied about Japan even informally. If you go for a long time without knowing any Japanese it's possible to become frustrated and depressed due to being sort of isolated by the language barrier, however studying Japanese obviously helps this. Really, the worst thing going to Japan for me is Jet lag. Good god that Jet lag. Mine made worse by the fact I can never sleep on planes...

I would suggest however at least aiming for a year of Japanese classes before a vacation, you'll get a lot more out of it if you've got a basic command over the language.

25> I plan on taking 2 years of Japanese classes in Japan actually if I am able to, I wanna become as fluent as possible, and I already studied the language for 2 years, my grammar is good but I have a horrible vocabulary.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/mail/nn20080502a2.html

Probably good news: "Komura and other Foreign Ministry officials emphasized that the revision would only give more visa opportunities to foreigners with Japanese language skills who would, without the new system, find it difficult to acquire a longer-term visa."

Out of curiosity, has the situation changed since I first came over...? (I came over in the mid-90's.
When I first came, you'd visit for 90 days, and get up bright and early Monday Morning and read the Japan times.
You'd schedule a load of interviews...
Certain companies would hire almost ANYBODY... general wisdom was AVOID NOVA UNLESSALL ELSE FAILED.
Usually within less than a month you would get hired so long as you had a BA in anything and were in your 20's and white.
Some schools would let you work without a visa and do a 90 day renewal until the visa came through...others would have you wait...
Most schools would sign you to a 20-25 hour work week, but often it was split... The good news was that some schools would give you more work than your heart desired... but would skimp just a bit on the payroll (except the really greedy schools.) You usually got Y250,000 on signing, maybe a small bonus, and a week or two vacation.
In general most teachers would break contract at whatever school and move on to the next company... The goal back then was to get to a point where you could have enough students to "self sponsor" a visa.
But most teachers would get sick and tired after about a year and head back home...
and we all lived happily ever after... not.

@エディー

I would think that the eikaiwa market is a lot more competitive than it was in the mid-90's. The economy was a lot better back then, people were generally more interested in learning English, less competition from other foreigners, and Nova existed.

I think schools are a lot more pickier about who they employ and sponsor. I know that some of the name value schools like GEOS and ECC, want a proper English degree not just a BA, and or teaching credentials.

The IT market is pretty saturated too. Mostly full of ex-English teachers from the 90's.

"I plan on taking 2 years of Japanese classes in Japan actually if I am able to, I wanna become as fluent as possible, and I already studied the language for 2 years, my grammar is good but I have a horrible vocabulary."

Note: You still need to get a student visa. Not sure what the requirements are for getting in, but I would image that you'd need really deep pockets for tuition and living expenses. I went through $2000 within 2 months of my arrival and that's living very conseratively (no partying or eating out at extravagant places, and living in a rent free room at my uncle's house) The money was spen mostly on transportation expenses and job finding goods (newspapers, resumes, faxes, copies, etc)

Yeah...as a student to live in Japan, it's so expensive to attend even a part-time class course and rent a small small apartment house...

But if you're a part time student, another half day you can use as a part time worker, and I think teaching job is easier for a native speaker of English.

I agree!!
Before a long-term residence in Japan, just try a shart stay and see if you can be OK to live in Japan!!
I've also heard and seen that some people who came to Japan as JET teachers for two-year programs..., they came but couldn't stand the jobs or other things and ended up going back home...
Of course, I know that a short time stay and a long term stay could be so different, too....

How about searching some exchange programs between US collges and Japanese ones??
Maybe a long term is high competitive but a short time programs must be easier and more available...

Anyway, good luck!! Ganbattene!!

夢パティ: a few weeks ago, an acquaintance of mine said that one can apply to study in Japan (full-time) and, once admitted, get pretty much enough of scholarship to get by. Obviously, once you've got a degree in their University, you should be able to find a job relatively easy. So, my suggestion would be to finish the school and take a look at the programs that Japanese universities offer.


#16 > If you're laid back, they will beat you. This is true of anything, but especially of IT jobs.
I can't speak of Japan, but here in the West (and in my life), there's a saying: "work smart, not hard". If anyone judges my performance by the amount of time I spend at work now, I'd never get a raise; but when all that matters is results, I'm in the top 10 in the department.
As I say to my manager: "you'd rather see the servers working 24x7 that me working 24x7, right?"

The first time I came over here was on the Monbukagakusho scholarship for a year study at Shizuoka University.. And I came back home 6000 dollars richer than I was when i left. Basically, all my tuition was paid, and I lived off a 1400 dollar a month stipend. It was more than enough since I lived in an international dormitory, and the rent was like 69 bucks a month. Check around for scholarships. , When they checked my academic background for the scholarship they just looked at my record in college. Meaning get a fresh start now, get 2 years of straight As under your belt, and I would say you probably have a shot at something, even if it just tuition reimbursement. Being a student here doesnt have to be terribly expensive. Even if you can only afford to stay for 6 months, you will have a better idea if you really want to be here, and it will help your Japanese ability out big time.