☆ENGLISH ONLY☆コミュのElder/Younger, Wisdom, PRIDE, Friendship

There's a saying from MAD magazine: "[There are] twelve year-olds of all ages." (Some people get older, but don't get wiser.)

Similarly, it's folly to think that, because you're older than someone, you know more than them about everything.

That's an excellent saying!

This is a very interesting topic. Wisdom has absolutely nothing to do with age; they are not proportional. Wisdom only comes from suffering. And suffering takes on many guises.

I stopped studying Japanese because of my fundamental disagreement with keigo. I've known a lot of Japanese people that didn't really like it either.

respect is respect regardless of age. We are happy to be respected as a human by another. That's fundamental. On top of that, there are wide range of respectability according to the person.

About the age and respectability, it doesn't go hand in hand. It depends on the person, but as a whole, older people have learned more than younger along the course of life, and if you find something respectable, you respect. Otherwise don't bother, but you can respect as a person anyway.

brightonlove,

>I stopped studying Japanese because of my fundamental disagreement with keigo.

very interesting point. Keigo is pain in the ass, isn't it? That's because Japan is a vertical society. Nowadays the structure seems to be crumbling down bit by bit, but far too slow to make you want to study Japanese, i'm afraid.

>I've known a lot of Japanese people that didn't really like it either.

well, if you can respect everyone, there should be no problem with keigo.

In my Japanese view,your opinion is quite true.

From Edo era（1600〜）Japanese had been much affected of 儒教（It's originate from Korea.This shows how to act polightly.）
This 儒教 includes the ieda,you had better think much of your family,which is regarded as elder-should-be-respected.

This effect has never gone.Now it goes on.


Hawever I want you to know about 儒教 is not bad thing.It prefers to be peace,warm and cozy.
The idea,we should respect elder,comes from such thoughts.


儒教 is neither very good nor bad.It's a culture.I want you to understand this.


Sorry for my poor English.

Generally I'd say that age is necessary, but not sufficient, for wisdom.

That is, not all old people are wise, but all wise people are old.
(Definitions of "old" and "wise" vary proportionally.)


> I stopped studying Japanese because of my fundamental disagreement with keigo.

Wow. That makes no more sense to me than if someone quit Spanish because they felt it was sexist to assign genders to objects. But to each his own I suppose.

That's a good topic!!

>I had this discussion with one Japanese friend and it gets quite heated. She feels offended if
>I correct her English. She says I am younger than her so it shouldn't happen...
There is a line if you cross it you got this result.
You didn't understand that she did not need your corrections.

tos:

It would have been OK if I knew the line existed! Most people are more than happy to be corrected, so that they can improve their English. I know I am when it comes to my Japanese.

And actually, if you re-read what I wrote, you will see the issue in question was not the correction, but the fact it came from someone younger (although I am the one with English as their mother tongue).

Personally I learnt to embrace humility when I was about 15 or 16, and am grateful for corrections in anything. A friends 10 year old daughter recently taught me how to do something on my mobile phone which I didn't know. I couldn't imagine being anything but thankful for the useful information!

It genuinely makes me sad that someone would discriminate (haha yes I said it) against me because of my age!

The thing people don't like is when someone says something that he shouldn't. Let's say you didn't have enough experience to say what you had said. Because of that you got into an embarassing situation.
You see, despite the fact that I'm older than you, you are probably angry at me now...

Well, I have Japanese buddy's of all ages from 17 to 40's...

And i've also talked to their family members....

Honestly, I've never ran into a Problem with the whole "age" and "respect" factor.

I think you friend is just a particular case. It could have just been a simple case of embarrassment.
Or she was just annoyed by it. You never know, especially with Females.. =] They are always so mystifying with their actions. hehe... Anyway, I usually never correct my Japanese buddy's English during a regular conversation unless they ask. They never correct my Japanese during a regular conversation unless i ask.

It would be just plane annoying to be correcting each other every few mins.

**Off topic a little**
I don't use Keigo. It's just my Keigo is not Perfect. So i will speak without it sometimes. But, I think there is a hidden understanding that even though I don't speak with Keigo. I am trying my best. So i've never had anyone get up-set from it.

Oh yeah, as for the whole wiser thing... Being most people younger than me are like under 21...

For the most part i would have to say they are less wise... But I'm also not saying I am wiser than them... My personal belief is wisdom comes with experience... So, Wise people are always going to be older than you.

Being smart and being wise are two different things though. Someone younger than you can definitely be smarter.

By the way, What exactly is the age gape your talking about between you and her?

keigo sometimes falls into just a lip service which means nothing as long as respect goes. The important thing is love inside the man using the language. The loving eyes, smile, hearty voice tone, the whole vive the guy is emanating, that's what counts.

>For the most part i would have to say they are less wise... But I'm also not saying I am wiser than them... My personal belief is wisdom comes with experience... So, Wise people are always going to be older than you.

I would have to disagree. There are older people who don't have as many life experience (like who stayed in their city, high school grad) as someone, say, who went to college, graduated and travelled all over the world.
It would be a fallacy to say that age = experience = wisdom. They're not at all connected. :P It's just that once you become older you have the CHANCE to experience, which could lead to the CHANCE of becoming wiser. A probability than a certainty.

i guess wisdom consists of two aspects. One is outer and the second is inner. Outer wisdom is worldly knowledge and experience acquired through actual living in the world. Inner wisdom is acquired by going deeper into yourself. In other words, it's how deep you know yourself.

>7

And I would very much disagree with your assertion that all wise people are old. But, as you say, to each his or her own.

I'd say the real issue with your friend is that she prefers you not to correct her English. For whatever reason she has you should respect her wishes in that regard. Eventhough I have a BA in Teaching English as a Second or Other Language I find it best not to correct anyone's English use unless there is an error that blocks comprehension. That is, unless asked to correct more often.

Well it all depends, wouldn't you say? There are old fools as well as young ones and there are wise youth as well as wise elderly people. I have to say the wisdom gained from living a long time is respectable.

To put it simply, I agree with what Hawaii Ben says: "the wisdom gained from living a long time is respectable." You may not be smarter or more knowledgeable just because you're older, but you have experience that can only come with a long life - joy, pain, everything.

A bit off-topic, but that's why I strongly disagree with Japan's new medical system that apparently sucks more money out of those 75 and older. Those are the people that have built today's Japan for our sake. I feel guilty that we're making them pay for medical services at all.

in other words, since George Bush is twice my age he is twice as smart as me?

Interesting replies everyone, I've been following this thread but not replying. I don't want to talk further re. my own personal disagreement, but the subject itself still interests me greatly.

Discussing this subject with another friend he thinks there is something deeper than just this. He also talked about Wisdom Vs Intelligence.

He says that an intelligent person can tell you why it rains. Water rising in the air, condensing into clouds, and at a certain weight it will fall back to earth.

A wise person will tell you that you should open an umbrella when it rains.

Certain wisdom can only be gained through life experience. But we don't all accumulate experience at the same speed. A rough childhood can allow someone to acquire a lot more experience than a perfect one. Or rather, they have more experience in a different area.

One thing which makes this makes this subject even more interesting is experience becoming redundant. The world is fast changing. I'm a young man at 23 years old, but even in my short lifetime I can see the world has changed. My experience in some areas may now be redundant.

Doctors are forever attending lectures, training seminars, etc, as new medical techniques are discovered, and science advances. Those that don't are left behind.


That's deviating a bit from my original post but nevermind.

Age gives more time to accumulate experience in areas. But whether you can turn your own experiences into WISDOM is something totally different. There are people who make the same mistake many times... They cannot be considered wise ones!!

I still feel like thats going off on a tangent...

___________________________________


Basically, I feel that Age does not absolutely = Wisdom. Does that make sense? I also feel that in a friendship with someone of a different age, if it's a friendship, both parties thoughts and advices should be listened to, regardless of age. Whether you follow that advice is up to you, but to say that "they are too old to understand" or "they are too young" is, in my opinion, an incredibly silly outlook to have.

I think things like "life" "experience" "life experience" "wisdom" "knowledge" are all very variable things.

I am studying Kanji at the moment. Some friends tell me that my method is wrong, and I should use the more traditional Japanese method of drilling kanji until you remember it, like they learnt. I disagree. While I think this method is perfectly fine when you are young, as an older person, it's incredibly difficult this way, so I use a different method. After some explanation and proof that my method is working better for me, they agreed that in this case, it's better. Despite them having personal experience at learning Kanji, in this case, doing things my own way is better. (To any Japanese learners, I study Kanji using the Heisig method).

>in other words, since George Bush is twice my age he is twice as smart as me?

You can't compare a man with an ape.

I'll be brief.
I believe that with age, (most people) grow wiser. But I also believe that there are things we can learn from people who are younger.

Many of my Japanese friends right now are much younger than me. Eventhough, I treat them as equal...still, they respect me a lot...by using keigo with me even when I tell them to stop using it.

> ... an intelligent person can tell you why it rains. Water rising in the air,
> condensing into clouds, and at a certain weight it will fall back to earth.
> A wise person will tell you that you should open an umbrella when it rains.

I always hated this analogy. Partly because it sounds so anti-intellectual, but mainly because any idiot will tell you to open an umbrella when it rains.

I always thought it should end: "A wise person will tell you that rain is a part of life, and that the sun is sure to come out eventually and that when it does you'll appreciate it all the more for the hardship you experienced, but you won't believe him until you've been through it for yourself." I guess that version is less flip, but to me it seems more true.

You can never compare a man with an ape politician.

>I always hated this analogy. Partly because it sounds so anti-intellectual, but mainly because any
>idiot will tell you to open an umbrella when it rains.
Being a clever person doesn't make you a person knowing ways of life.

>I guess that version is less flip, but to me it seems more true.
To speak like this you should be wise, do you? Do you consider yourself a wise person?

>in other words, since George Bush is twice my age he is twice as smart as me?

i should have said,

You can not compare a man with an ape, much less with a politician.

Sorry apes.

29 tos
> Being a clever person doesn't make you a person knowing ways of life.

Sure, but opening an umbrella when it rains doesn't require knowing the ways of life. It requires a thumb.


> To speak like this you should be wise, do you? Do you consider yourself a wise person?

I don't think I have an opinion on the subject. Probably better that way, isn't it?

＞Sure, but opening an umbrella when it rains doesn't require knowing the ways of life. It requires a
＞thumb.
Sure, but there are a lot of things like opening an umbrella when it rains. For examlpe, eating balanced food etc. Do you eat balanced food?

fenomas,

>> any idiot will tell you to open an umbrella when it rains.


We use hoods in Seattle instead. Didn't you know that? ;-)