☆ENGLISH ONLY☆コミュのDO I GIVE UP MY SEAT ON THE TRAIN?

Oh and by the way, never once did I say I was special. And for this reason, I never expect people to give their seat up for me for any reason. Its really a first come first serve world in the morning, and I've learned to respect that. That's why I get to the station ear;ly in the morning so that I get a better chance of getting a seat. Likewise, I would think that those who don't respect the competiveness of the morning and evening rush hour, and choose to board a crowded commuter train, should at least understand that they'll probably wind up standing

@トニー(登兄)

"10-12 hour days arent that long"

Its this type of thinking that makes a salary man's life hard, and our work days longer. May I remind you that there are only 24 hours in a day, so in essence we spend almost half of our lives and two-thirds of our waking lives working. If that doesn't seem like a long time to you, then you need to REALLY re-evaluate your life and reason for exisitng on this planet. I will be damned if I have to spend my entire life away from my family for that long and just "accept it"

In general, I know I should give up my seat to people older than me... but, am I the only person who now and then is just too tired or in a bad mood... decides not to, yet feels guilty, so pretends to fall asleep and not see the person... or who keeps the seat, then gets up and does a fake limp...
Does this make me a bad person? (I give up my seat about 87% of the time.)

Regarding eating food on the train, in Japan its considered bad manners to eat in public...
It took me a long time to learn this because in Philadelphia we have hot dog carts, chinese food carts, and stands at the train station where you can buy "walk and eat" food... its very much a part of the culture I grew up in.
I stopped eating in public, but I still will drink my diet cokes on the train... I'm not giving that up... sorry...

By the way, speaking of train manners, how about accidental eye contact... and you and another person start trying not to look like you're looking at each other but wondering if the other person is looking at you... then wondering if she's looking at you to see if you're looking at her, or because she's interest in you?

@エディー

I see eating on trains more frequently these days. Its mostly done by high school boys and girls, although I occassionally see older people do it too. My generation (I'm in my 30's BTW) where taught that eating in public (standing and walking) is rude. But the younger generations weren't taught properly. I remember seeing on TV once where someone asked a group of girls why they were eating food on the trains and if someone ever told them that it was bad manners. They're response was "we do it all the time. Our parents do it too. Isn't that why they sell bentos on the platforms?"

The newer generation of kids are very confused when it comes to proper mannerism. Either they were never taught, or weren't taught properly. Hence in the situation above, they couldn't disassociate the difference between a commuter train and a long distance train like the Shinkansen or Romance car and which is okay and not okay to eat food in. Its really sad.

@よっし

1.　This is more to do with express trains. Express trains are generally a lot more crowded than local trains, especially during rush hour. Its definately no environment for a small child. The mother really needs to consider the child's well being over her own convenience . Moreover, strollers take up a lot of space. On the particularline I ride to work, it gets pretty crowded, and there's barely any place to stand (when do have to stand), I often find myslef pinned against hard objects. And when that object is a stroller, suitcase, or someone's oversized bag. it really irritates me.

2. An occassional text message here or there doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when someone gets so consumed in their keitai that they don't realize that there are others around them. I often have someone sticking their phones in my back or in my ear, and I really can't stand that clicking sound so close to my ear. I also had to sit by a person who pulled out his keitai every 3 to 4 minutes, flip it open to check to see if he's got a message. It was REALLY annoying. I genuinely believe that mobile phones have made people more rude and less sensitive to others.

12. I know this because I have seen the same woman with the same badge on her purse for the last seven months now (about the time I started riding this particular train), and she hasn't changed in appearance. She doesn't even look slightly pregnant, and she switches a lot between train schedules, because I've seen her on a later train. I've been around a lot of pregnant women to know that during the third trimester (which she should be in by now), the baby tends to move around a lot, and women often rub their mid sections when this happens. I have never seen her do this, or any of the other stuff to indicate she's pregnant. Not even once. She's definately a fake, She knows I'm on to her so she doesn't bother standing in front of me or near me anymore. I think they should require a 母子手帳　"boshi techo" in order to get these badges, be cause I suspect that there are a lot of fakes. It really disgusts me to see to what legnths some people take to get a seat. Pretending to be pregnant is so wrong!

15. I don't know if you have noticed but there seems to be a fad where young girls carry small suitcases around instead of purses. They really do get in the waｙ. As for the larger suitcases, for the same reason as strollers, they are objects that don't belong on trains during peak hours.

21. People who are very obviously sick (colds, flu, ror whatever) In a confined space like a train, something like that can easily become an epidemic. i wish people would think about others before they decide to ride the train when they are ill.

i almost always give up me seat, the only time i don't if when i have way too much stuff to carry and it's in the way
maybe 50%thank me, no worries, but sometimes things happen like...

they get offended that i'm offering them a seat,

somehow they see me and just walk away

and here's what i hate... some healthy young moron pushes their way in totally k-y-ing and snatches the seat before the old lady or little kid gets to sit down... and then everyone just watches...

things like this makes me sad...

still, i'll keep on truckin and saving seats for my peeps who need it

> 50 ミライ
> I had a 20 something year old girl dangle her keitai ... while she viciously clicked on the buttons typing out messages. I gave her a really dirty look, but being rude and totally oblivious to her surroundings, she didn't get it or didn't care.

That's amazing. As far as manners go, it's like she honestly didn't care what you thought! What kind of nasty, boorish person behaves like that?


> 50 ミライ
> As far as seating goes, I honestly don't care what people think.

That answers that question.



> Also, I made it very clear that this is during rush hour, a time when most people with physical impairments, with little children, or the elderly really should be avoiding.

Um. Use your head for a moment. Do you ride that train because you enjoy it, or because you can't avoid it? Well, everyone else on your train feels the same way. If they could avoid it they'd be somewhere else doing so. They're in the same situation as you, and they're not enjoying it any more than you are.

Except for the ones who are old or have small children - they're enjoying it a lot less than you are. (Many of them likely have longer commutes, too. Fifty minutes is a bit below average, if you work in Tokyo.)



> YES I am a stickler for manners

Some of them, yes...

@ミライ

Ummm ok,
so you don't like the women's only car, but you also don't like gropers?
Thats kind of contradictory in a way...

Are the buses as bad as the trains? I never hear stories about the bus system in Tokyo. It makes me question its existence.

I don't know about what people do on the subway in japan, but here in Toronto ( on the bus or subway ) as a general rule I normally stand up and offer my seat to mothers with children, women and elderly people, a practice which seems to be diminishing here in the west.

People have lost all sense of manners these days.

@Toure

Its a fallacy to think that ALL trains have gropers, which seems to be the basis of having a women-only car. Its just not true. During rush hour, each car hold roughly 150-200 people, and most train lines have 8 to 11 cars. Thats roughly 1500 to 2500+ people per train. Gropers, although annoying, are a very small minority. I'd say even on a very bad day, there are less than 2 to 3 gropers per train. Thats like less than .01% of the population of the entire train. Even iIf there were 10 gropers (1 per car) on a particular train (which is unlikely), that's still less than 1 percent on the commuter population.

Segregating sexes because a very small group of perverts can't keep their hands to themselves, or because some women just don't like being around men (which seems like the true reason) is definitely a move in the wrong direction. Not only is it discriminatory and sexist, but I can almost bet that its against the law, even Japanese law.

Women's-lib group seem to think that equal rights laws and policies (such as this one) should on pertain to and benefit them, but when putting such laws and policies in place, they are forgetting that it infringes on the basic human rights of the majority.

Gropers may have initially instigated the concept of the "Women-only" cars, but its the womens-lib groups who pushed to have their own cars. Its may seem like a good idea on paper, but in reality all it serves to do is further segregate and already segregated (sexually and racially) society.

Also, men board the women-only cars anyways, because its just way too damn crowded on some of these trains to have them in the first place. So, in essence, they don't work anyways so why have them?

Buses do get equally crowded, but I tend to give up my seat more regularly. Simple reasoning is that buses run less regularly, the ride is much more rougher (which can be tough on the older people), and they have less seats. Also, people seem to spend much less time on buses than trains.

So as far as buses go, I am much more generous in letting those who are physically challenged have my seat.

@fenomas

see, I'm not as bad as you think...am I? (smiles)

63 ミライ
> see, I'm not as bad as you think...am I? (smiles)

I bet that girl waving the cellphone in your face could list all kinds of reasons why she's not as bad as you think she is. But all you saw was a rude, self-centered, inconsiderate brat. Now extrapolate that lesson to when you're sitting on the train not giving up your seat to some 75-year-old with a cane, and draw your own conclusions. and if you're happy with those conclusions, then fair enough.

@fenomas

First of all, the girl with the annoying keitai strap knew I was getting annoyed by it, because I moved it out of my face a couple of times, yet she still dangled that thing in my face. IMO that's not only rude, but down right spiteful and inconsiderate.

Secondly, I very rarely see 75 year olds with canes on my train during rush hour because most of them know better not to take that train line in the morning. Its nortorious for being overcrowed and somewhat unhealthy. I'm not a complete jerk as you're trying make me out to be. There are times when I do give up my seat, but I very reluctantly do it (for all the reasons mentioned above).

Not all elderly folk are angels you know. Sometimes they EXPECT you to give them your seat. I actually saw this today, when I came home from work. The train wasn't overcrowded because it was the weekend but all of the seats were taken. I saw this elderly man carrying a cane and he actually randomly singled someone out who was sitting and really sleeping (not faking), and this old guy hit his feet with his cane, and insisted that he get up and move. I couldn't believe it. I really felt for the poor guy.

RESPONSE TO (#46)

You asked me to explain, (#40)“Ultimately it is about extending a little kindness to each other without judgment!”

I have lived in Tokyo for a couple of years now. I grew up in California and have driven a car for all of my adult life. Most of my experience using public transportation has been here in Tokyo. As a person with disabilities some of the behavior that I have seen and experienced on the trains here in Tokyo has been very challenging for me to adjust to.

I think that the simple thing for me to do would be to complain to my family and friends about my experiences. I could pass judgment on the people who behaved in a way that I thought was inappropriate. Since I am not perfect I do not want to put my energy into passing judgment on others people’s behavior. I want to understand why they behave the way they do. I thought posting this message and starting this conversation that we might all understand each other a little better.

I also understand that I will never understand all the reasons why people behave the way they do on trains. I am much more interested in suing my energy to work for positive change. So I decided to be proactive and create the community,

“GIVING UP YOUR SEAT ON THE TRAIN COMMUNITY.”

I created this community for people who are willing to extend kindness to others on the train, to raise awareness and help encourage others to work for positive change on the trains. I think that a lot of challenges that we face in the world today could be resolved if we learned to be a little more kind to each other!

GIVING UP YOUR SEAT ON THE TRAIN COMMUNITY
電車で席を譲るコミュ
http://mixi.jp/view_community.pl?id=3233328

and I thought commuting in Chicago was a pain in the arse!?
Well at least trains run every 5 minutes...or so I hear, but guess even that doesn't matter.

And if I was a woman, I don't think I'd want to be on a train that crowded. I'd feel uncomfortable and probably paranoid.

＠Toure

Are you kidding me? That's empty compared to what I go through every morning. Now you know why I say suitcases and strollers don't belong on these things. Imagine being shoved into those things by the station agents...they hurt like hell and you're stuck in that position until the doors open again at the next station.`

68 ミライ
Ahh, don't be dramatic. It doesn't really get any more crowded than that obviously. Although for all you keep talking about it, I've never, ever seen a stroller on morning rush hour trains. What always bothered me was the people who'd wear gigantic freaking backpacks like they were on the direct train for Kilimanjaro.

67 Toure`
You pretty much have it, except that *everybody* feels uncomfortable and paranoid.

Hey guys!!
How are we?

I was on the train with my girlfriend and we were sitting next to eachother on the train. There were people standing on the train around us as well. I suggested to her that why don't we give up a seat by getting my girlfriend to sit on my lap, giving someone else the free space. She thought it wasnt a good idea at first, but then she sat on my lap and we offered that free seat to an older woman. The woman was shocked at first on the idea, but appreciated the fact we had offered her a seat, in a very unusual way.

@fenomas

As a matter of fact, it does get more crowded than that. I had a video of people trying to squeeze onto a train but I can't find it now. I'll try to shoot another one, but in the video above, at least everyone got on the train. On REALLY crowded days, there are people who can't even get on. And those who do manage to squeeze on usually have articles of clothing, body parts, or bags protruding through the cracks.

Also there are times when its so crowded that the station attendants have to pry the doors open because the people are pressed up against the door so hard, that the doors can't slide open on their own. It sounds like you've never been on a REALLY overpacked train.

AND YES there are people who are dumb enough to bring strollers and suitcases aboard. I see it at least once a week, usually on the ride home.

@マイーク

Sorry, but that sound really weird and I would never do anything like that in Japan. I know you meant well, but it might even be considered obscene by some people, especially the elderly.

@Super sonic Fireman

Because many Japanese people are racist and/or don't feel confortable around foreigners.

72 ミライ
> On REALLY crowded days, there are people who can't even get on.
Yes, as the people outside the train in the video presumably can't.

> It sounds like you've never been on a REALLY overpacked train.
Don't be childish.

I'm talking a lot more people outside of train which common sense dictates that they won't be able to board and yet they push and shove with no consideration or thought for the person who they're pushing.

If they can get on with very little effort from the station attendants (like in this video) then its not even that crowded in my opinion.

The bottom line is, IT GETS A LOT MORE CROWDED THAN THAT...and I am not being over dramatic...its a fact. If you haven't experienced it, then you're either very lucky or you haven't been in Japan long enough.

@fenomas

wasn't trying to be childish...just trying to state an opinion

@Super sonic Fireman

>>just tap them on the shoulder and say sumimasen.

I excused myself couple of times. The last time I moved it out of my face, made eye contact with her, and firmly gave her my "sumimasen" and yet she still continued.

You see, there is one thing you got to know about some of these people. When they are holding their mobiles in their hands and madly typing out text messages, they don't care about anything (not you, me, the people around her, or the train). The world could be crumbling around them and they'd be completely oblivious to it, because to them, their text messaging is far more important. Its their way of shutting out the rest of the world. They could be stepping on your foot, and it wouldn't matter to them. As a matter of fact to some, it'd be your fault for having your foot there in the first place, and you would not even get an apology..

I did see a "good thing" the other day though. A young girl was using her mobile (text messaging) next to an older (not quite so elderly -maybe late 50's) woman. I could tell that the woman was getting annoyed and understandably so. As the train tossed and pitched, the girl kept losing her balance and running into the woman because she wasn't holding onto anything but her mobile. Finally the woman confronted the girl and said, "you are being very rude. You've run into me three times now and haven't apologized. Either put that phone away or move away from me" The girl kind of sneered at her and walked away. I couldn't believe her rudeness, but the woman was awesome. I've never seen a Japanese woman in Tokyo lash out like that. More power to her!

Now, THIS is what I'm talking about and what I have to contend with.

Here is one of a grown man (obviously drunk) sitting on the floor.

74 ミライ
> The bottom line is, IT GETS A LOT MORE CROWDED THAN THAT...and I am not being over dramatic...


Yes you are being dramatic. When the train gets to the point where nobody else can get on, even with pushers helping, then that's as crowded as it gets. It doesn't matter whether there is one person waiting outside or a hundred, the train isn't going to get any fuller than it already is. (Although in reality, once the train starts moving people jostle around and "settle" a bit, so by the time you get to the next station there's actually a little room for a couple more people. That can go on for at least 5 or 6 stations, with maybe 2 more people boarding each time, which is what it looks like is happening in the video.)

But then I say this without having seen your video, which seems to have been removed. Maybe it showed people climbing onto the luggage racks?

Anyway, whether I have or haven't ridden a train as crowded as yours is something that isn't worth talking about anonymously. I assure you that I have, you're welcome not to believe me, and let's please leave it at that.

Im not sure why the video was removed...should have downloaded and reposted it directly on mixi....but those who got to see it will agree that it was far more crowded than the previous video. What happens on the inside is that people start falling over when the train brakes, to the point where the people who are standing are almost sitting on the people who are seated. People get injured and sometimes hauled off on stretchers, which I've witness on many occasions.

The point is, its no place for the elderly, children or the physically challenged. Everyone should have an opportunity to sit regardless of age during peak hours because it a bad condition to be in for even healthy adults.

>>But then I say this without having seen your video, which seems to have been removed. Maybe it showed people climbing onto the luggage racks?

Now I think you're being over dramatic... :-|

The one I posted above was worse but this one is pretty bad. 5 or 6 station attendants pushing a highschool boy

81 ミライ
> but those who got to see it will agree that it was far more crowded than the previous video. What happens on the inside is that people start falling over when the train brakes, to the point where the people who are standing are almost sitting on the people who are seated.

Ahh, that never happens on a REALLY crowded train. Once it's really crowded, nobody can move far enough to fall over. Maybe you've just never ridden a REALLY crowded train?

Kidding aside, like I said it's all equally crowded after a certain point. How much pushing is required at the door isn't a question of how crowded the train is, it's a question of how many of the people waiting are going to refuse to wait for the next train.

However with that said, I think the kind of morning rush-hour train you're now talking about is kind of irrelevant here, because giving up your seat isn't usually a feasible idea in the first place. That is, it's impossible to give up your seat to anyone unless they're directly in front of you, and pretty damned difficult even then.

@よっし

It really depends on the situation I suppose. I'm not a heartless monster, and I have given up my seat to older folks and REAL obviously pregnant women. But I definately don't make a habit of doing it automatically. I've said it several times above, people withh physical impairments really should reconsider what trains what times they ride if they cannot bare the commute traffic, or do what I do and be patient and wait.

And again, when I refer to suitcases it really refers to overcrowded trains like in the videos above. They really do make things difficult and even more upleasant for everyone.

The girls with the small suitcases are all over the place. They are called やどがり女。(hermit crab girls)

@fenomas

Finally, we agree on something...sort of... :-)

@71

i'd feel sad too, but i bet a little kid wouldn't mind sitting next you/me. I heard they were more sociable towards gaijin...especially those who want to practice english.