Princess Kiko, Japanese imperial family,gave a birth to boy, New born baby is in line third to the imperial throne next to Princess Akihito and hironomiya
People seem to be glad at news.
The current Imperial House Law decided that only male can be emperor,and as there were only female grandchildren of the emperor, that was còntrovérsial issue.,but as the Prince was born,the recent issue ,the rivision of theImperial House Law , stopped to discuss,
What do you think? do you think law should revise to accept female emperors? or should protect traditonal rules?
People seem to be glad at news.
The current Imperial House Law decided that only male can be emperor,and as there were only female grandchildren of the emperor, that was còntrovérsial issue.,but as the Prince was born,the recent issue ,the rivision of theImperial House Law , stopped to discuss,
What do you think? do you think law should revise to accept female emperors? or should protect traditonal rules?
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コメント(34)
The law should definitely be changed. It seems that the happiest people about this boy are old men who are in politics. Of course, I am happy the boy and his mother are safe and healthy -- that is the most important thing -- but I was hoping for a girl so that Japan would have to think about the law more carefully and hopefully change it.
It is an outdated, and sexist law. Japan is making good progress for women in other areas (sometimes a bit slow, but not bad), but now they will not change this law for a long time. It's sad.
It is an outdated, and sexist law. Japan is making good progress for women in other areas (sometimes a bit slow, but not bad), but now they will not change this law for a long time. It's sad.
I am for abandoning the entire Imperial system, but if you ask me about changing the current laws regarding female heirs, yes, I agree that they need to be changed. It is not just for gender equality, but for practicality as well. If not now, there _will_ be the time when they only have women to succeed the Imperial throne. Like リック says, it should be discussed sooner than later.
Some Old Boys are so worried about the idea of a female emperor, but they forget, as History Geek says, that there have been some in the past. And let's not forget Great Britain, where some of the greatest and strongest leaders have been women -- like Elizabeth I.
These men are clinging to old fashioned and sexist beliefs, as I said. As daihado said too, it is impracticle.
These men are clinging to old fashioned and sexist beliefs, as I said. As daihado said too, it is impracticle.
None of the past female empresses had their heir take the throne--they were still a part of a patrilineal system. They were only there until a male of the "main line" came to a suitable age to reign. That's why the current Japanese Imperial Household is partilinial. The oldboys are arguing against this shifting towards a matrilineal system.
An analogy would be-- if John Doe marrys with Jane Smith, Jane Smith typically becomes Jane Doe. The opposite sometimes happen, but it is very rare. Having the imperial bloodline pass through the mother's side is much like that.
Elizabeth I was also a Queen within a patrilinial system much like the current Japanese imperial household. She was a daughter of Henry VIII, and was succeeded by James I, who was the great great grandsom of Henry VII. And of course, Elizabeth I never married and had no offspring.
An analogy would be-- if John Doe marrys with Jane Smith, Jane Smith typically becomes Jane Doe. The opposite sometimes happen, but it is very rare. Having the imperial bloodline pass through the mother's side is much like that.
Elizabeth I was also a Queen within a patrilinial system much like the current Japanese imperial household. She was a daughter of Henry VIII, and was succeeded by James I, who was the great great grandsom of Henry VII. And of course, Elizabeth I never married and had no offspring.
>> Having the imperial bloodline pass through the mother's side is much like that.
I don't even think it happens in Japan today. A woman in the Imperial family will become an "ordinary" person once she gets married; therefore, the "Imperial bloodline" will only go through the male members of the Imperial family. Please correct me if I'm wrong, though.
I don't even think it happens in Japan today. A woman in the Imperial family will become an "ordinary" person once she gets married; therefore, the "Imperial bloodline" will only go through the male members of the Imperial family. Please correct me if I'm wrong, though.
While it's nice for all the princesses in the Imperial family that a male heir was born (no more pressure?), I also feel strangely disappointed that it happened. Another female baby would have definitely forced a revision of the Imperial Household law, and I think that if Japan had an empress, it'd cause quite a lot of interesting and positive changes across contemporary Japanese culture, especially in the realm of the social perceptions of women and women's equality.
On a sidenote, that poor male kid is probably being guarded as closely as Suri Cruise was. When will they announce the baby's official name?
On a sidenote, that poor male kid is probably being guarded as closely as Suri Cruise was. When will they announce the baby's official name?
Yeah, the current rule is that if a female of the imperial household marryes a commoner, they become a commoner themself. Previously when Japan had an aristocracy (before 1946 or something), imperial folks were only allowed to marry from folks from four artistocratic families, such as the Fujiwara, Kujo, etc, I forgot.
Marriage with commoners was unheard of (it probably hapepned, but there's no record) until Showa's daughter Atsuko married a commoner.
Imperial females can still retain their title if they wed within the (currently) five other imperial households (such as Katsura, Mikasa, Takamdo, etc), but that's a bit gross.
Marriage with commoners was unheard of (it probably hapepned, but there's no record) until Showa's daughter Atsuko married a commoner.
Imperial females can still retain their title if they wed within the (currently) five other imperial households (such as Katsura, Mikasa, Takamdo, etc), but that's a bit gross.
Kyle,
The main reason is that, IMO, the people of the Imperial family aren't really treated fairly. They don't have family registers. They are not allowed go out and do what "commoners" are free to do. They are always exposed to the ruthless eyes of the media. The birth of this boy is a prime example. Childbearing is one of the most private (yet precious) events; yet they enjoy no such privacy.
I personally don't think they deserve all those hardships.
The main reason is that, IMO, the people of the Imperial family aren't really treated fairly. They don't have family registers. They are not allowed go out and do what "commoners" are free to do. They are always exposed to the ruthless eyes of the media. The birth of this boy is a prime example. Childbearing is one of the most private (yet precious) events; yet they enjoy no such privacy.
I personally don't think they deserve all those hardships.
14: Kyle> I don't think it's necessary to make assumptions about someone else's possible assumptions to get your point across.. Unless your only point is to flame that someone.
I personally think it shouldn't matter whether a patriarch or matriarch sits on the throne. Those antiquated rules are there just for a sense of order and probably has it's origins in the warring nature of ancient Japan.
Those who could wield a sword and lead armies where more often than not men, so it just followed that these individuals would often lead countries as well. I'm personally indifferent to sex of a ruler unless it interferes with their ability to rule. The emperor has pretty limited power these days anyways.
I personally think it shouldn't matter whether a patriarch or matriarch sits on the throne. Those antiquated rules are there just for a sense of order and probably has it's origins in the warring nature of ancient Japan.
Those who could wield a sword and lead armies where more often than not men, so it just followed that these individuals would often lead countries as well. I'm personally indifferent to sex of a ruler unless it interferes with their ability to rule. The emperor has pretty limited power these days anyways.
>13
yeah, that concern has been raised a number of times since the 1947 amendment to the Imperial Household Bylaws.
However, there was a recent amandment that will allow female imperials from the male line to create their own imperial family branch (much like Takasago, Takamado, Akishino, etc), even if they become married to commoner. This law was passed rather recently, so Sayako missed the chance to keep her royal titles, but in the future the daughters of Akishino, Takamado and whichever else that has daughters will have a chance to continue their father's imperial household (the old rule would have only allowed male heirs to continue their father's household). A female offspring of those in the direct line to the throne would be able to create an entirely new imperial household if they wish (Aiko would be the first person ever to do this, if she chooses to do so).
I have no idea what the rule would be in the case that a male heir is born in the future to a imperial household started by a princess. There's a lot of strange little rules...
Also, checking the British royalty's history, Queen Victoria had her son Edward VII ascend to the throne after she married Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, which is a royal household in Bavaria, Germany. To maintain the "patrilinial" line, they Victoria actually changed the British royal household to "The House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha." Of course, later on due to anti-German feelings, this name is changed to the "House of Windsor" which we're familiar with to this day.
yeah, that concern has been raised a number of times since the 1947 amendment to the Imperial Household Bylaws.
However, there was a recent amandment that will allow female imperials from the male line to create their own imperial family branch (much like Takasago, Takamado, Akishino, etc), even if they become married to commoner. This law was passed rather recently, so Sayako missed the chance to keep her royal titles, but in the future the daughters of Akishino, Takamado and whichever else that has daughters will have a chance to continue their father's imperial household (the old rule would have only allowed male heirs to continue their father's household). A female offspring of those in the direct line to the throne would be able to create an entirely new imperial household if they wish (Aiko would be the first person ever to do this, if she chooses to do so).
I have no idea what the rule would be in the case that a male heir is born in the future to a imperial household started by a princess. There's a lot of strange little rules...
Also, checking the British royalty's history, Queen Victoria had her son Edward VII ascend to the throne after she married Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, which is a royal household in Bavaria, Germany. To maintain the "patrilinial" line, they Victoria actually changed the British royal household to "The House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha." Of course, later on due to anti-German feelings, this name is changed to the "House of Windsor" which we're familiar with to this day.
> 15: だいはど
Japan's Emperor dosent have normal human rights, u know, dont u?
Because he is the symbol of Japan & Japanese.
So, he & his family shouldnt have the privacy.
For instance, if he doesnt respect any life(animal, plant, fish, mankind, whatever alive), how do kings, from other nation, believe in the friendship with Japan?
Japan's Emperor is the symbol whenever he is awake, eating, being interviewed, visiting overseas, blessing people, or dreaming in the bed!
This is the reason why he has no privacy.
And, he is wanted to let his successor grow correctly.
For this, he must observe each person exactly.
This is the reason why his family has no privacy neither.
Japan's Emperor dosent have normal human rights, u know, dont u?
Because he is the symbol of Japan & Japanese.
So, he & his family shouldnt have the privacy.
For instance, if he doesnt respect any life(animal, plant, fish, mankind, whatever alive), how do kings, from other nation, believe in the friendship with Japan?
Japan's Emperor is the symbol whenever he is awake, eating, being interviewed, visiting overseas, blessing people, or dreaming in the bed!
This is the reason why he has no privacy.
And, he is wanted to let his successor grow correctly.
For this, he must observe each person exactly.
This is the reason why his family has no privacy neither.
Personally I love the propaganda that comes out of the IHA. No family has run for 2,600 years with only a male lineage. After the gempei war nobody actaully knew who the Emperor was, and someone just came along and said 'I am', and during the Heian period, most emperors were chosen from sons of concubines, and not first wives. So the Japanese line is very broken up when you think about what we consider marraige law today (which all royal families have to abide to). Personally the Japanese should stop living in the past and change their law to that of the British royal family. (so long as there is no male heir, the oldest female takes the throne). But of course the old war mongers won't be having any of that. they still believe that emperors are gods. Can someone please explain to me how the Sun is able to have children again. It flew straight over my head last time.
> だいはど
> I personally don't think they deserve all those hardships.
you avoided my question again. that wasn't what you said. you said:
> I am for abandoning the entire Imperial system
specifically denying the "system" or tradition which your own people have kept for two thousand years.
why do you say that? just because it sounds kakkoii?
> I personally don't think they deserve all those hardships.
you avoided my question again. that wasn't what you said. you said:
> I am for abandoning the entire Imperial system
specifically denying the "system" or tradition which your own people have kept for two thousand years.
why do you say that? just because it sounds kakkoii?
Kyle,
>> you avoided my question again. that wasn't what you said.
>> you said:
>>> I am for abandoning the entire Imperial system
In case you missed it, my post (#15) explains why I am "all for abandoning the Imperial system." :)
>> why do you say that? just because it sounds kakkoii?
Do you think it's "kakkoii" to call for the abolishment of the Imperial system in today's Japan? I don't. :)
>> you avoided my question again. that wasn't what you said.
>> you said:
>>> I am for abandoning the entire Imperial system
In case you missed it, my post (#15) explains why I am "all for abandoning the Imperial system." :)
>> why do you say that? just because it sounds kakkoii?
Do you think it's "kakkoii" to call for the abolishment of the Imperial system in today's Japan? I don't. :)
だいはど>
I can't really imagine a Japan without an Imperial system. It seems like a part of the national identity, and while I can understand your concerns about the hardship they face, I don't know that anything will ever really change.
But I think it is important to remember also that tradition is not a static thing, but grows and adapts over stretches of time. As has been pointed out, Japan has had women emperors in the past, then "tradition" changed to being male-exclusive.
I guess I have a sense of tradition being an overall sort of feeling of identity, rather than a rigid set of rules.
Then again, I am strange, so maybe it is best just to ignore me entirely~^^
I can't really imagine a Japan without an Imperial system. It seems like a part of the national identity, and while I can understand your concerns about the hardship they face, I don't know that anything will ever really change.
But I think it is important to remember also that tradition is not a static thing, but grows and adapts over stretches of time. As has been pointed out, Japan has had women emperors in the past, then "tradition" changed to being male-exclusive.
I guess I have a sense of tradition being an overall sort of feeling of identity, rather than a rigid set of rules.
Then again, I am strange, so maybe it is best just to ignore me entirely~^^
Realistically, for the imperial household to be removed, the household would first have to become immensely unpopular among Japanese citizens. Currently, the imperial family is immensely popular among the Japanese because they are portrayed as genuinely nice people (and they probably are pleasant folks). This is also helped by how they've been more or less shielded from gross media scruitiny compared to other royal families in the world (such as the British aristocracy). I'm sure there's a lot of unspoken strange stuff going on in the kokyo and akasasaka-gosho and whatnot, but we would never know; but sometimes, there are things that are better to be left unknown, anyways.
Either that, or like what happened in Nepal a couple years ago, they need a machine-gun toting crown prince that goes into a murdering spree in the palace, killing most of the (popular) royal family and killing himself in the end. Heck, with all these kids killing their mom & daddy in Japan these days, meybe this new boy will bring "change" to the imperial household.
Either that, or like what happened in Nepal a couple years ago, they need a machine-gun toting crown prince that goes into a murdering spree in the palace, killing most of the (popular) royal family and killing himself in the end. Heck, with all these kids killing their mom & daddy in Japan these days, meybe this new boy will bring "change" to the imperial household.
> だいはど
> Or we can resume discussing the original topic. We just have
> to be careful to stay on topic and not get into personal fights.
thank you. may i just remind you that the original topic is "should the imperial succession rules be revised?", not "should the imperial system be abolished altogether?" you just have to be careful to stay on the topic.
> Or we can resume discussing the original topic. We just have
> to be careful to stay on topic and not get into personal fights.
thank you. may i just remind you that the original topic is "should the imperial succession rules be revised?", not "should the imperial system be abolished altogether?" you just have to be careful to stay on the topic.
文、
>> I can't really imagine a Japan without an Imperial
>> system. It seems like a part of the national identity,
>> and while I can understand your concerns about the hardship
>> they face, I don't know that anything will ever really change.
I agree. The Emperor system has been part of the Japanese culture for so long, it must be unthinkable for many Japanese to do without it. The essense of this proposed change to the rules is by allowing female emperors (or "empresses") so the system keeps functioning.
Like I said before, this is a good time to implement this change. If nothing else, it will be a good to give equal opportunities to both male and female members of the Imperial family.
>> I can't really imagine a Japan without an Imperial
>> system. It seems like a part of the national identity,
>> and while I can understand your concerns about the hardship
>> they face, I don't know that anything will ever really change.
I agree. The Emperor system has been part of the Japanese culture for so long, it must be unthinkable for many Japanese to do without it. The essense of this proposed change to the rules is by allowing female emperors (or "empresses") so the system keeps functioning.
Like I said before, this is a good time to implement this change. If nothing else, it will be a good to give equal opportunities to both male and female members of the Imperial family.
The issue、"abandoning the entire Imperial system" is what the communists party has kept on saying.
Emperor System has nothing to do with Western Democracy, so there's no meaning talking about "equal opportunity".
It's a spiritual issue. We should not make it a political one.
The communist planned to allow female Emperors because they studied very well that it will make the "Ten-noh system" collapse.
Allowing female linage Emperor is just a start to destroy the "Ten-noh system".
Maybe they would claim that female should be able to enter Catholic priesthood also and someday there might be a female pope, but I don't think it works in the Japanese "Ten-noh system"
It's interesting that people who say the Imperial family isn't treated right, talks about equality. Does that mean Female should be treated more rudely to become the Emperor like Men?
1.Male lingae, Male: OK
2.Male linage, Female: just for emergency
3.Female linage, Female: NO
4.Female linage, Female: NO
Currently 2 is NO. but Female Emperors in
history was in category 2.
Emperor System has nothing to do with Western Democracy, so there's no meaning talking about "equal opportunity".
It's a spiritual issue. We should not make it a political one.
The communist planned to allow female Emperors because they studied very well that it will make the "Ten-noh system" collapse.
Allowing female linage Emperor is just a start to destroy the "Ten-noh system".
Maybe they would claim that female should be able to enter Catholic priesthood also and someday there might be a female pope, but I don't think it works in the Japanese "Ten-noh system"
It's interesting that people who say the Imperial family isn't treated right, talks about equality. Does that mean Female should be treated more rudely to become the Emperor like Men?
1.Male lingae, Male: OK
2.Male linage, Female: just for emergency
3.Female linage, Female: NO
4.Female linage, Female: NO
Currently 2 is NO. but Female Emperors in
history was in category 2.
So should we start discussing the Imperial system per se rather than the proposed changes to the current rules here?
Just to clarify, my stand on the Emperor system has nothing to do with the Japanese political parties or their opinions on the issue at all. I have never looked at it as a political issue, either. I personally genuine feel that the Emperor system can be dispensed with.
Just to clarify, my stand on the Emperor system has nothing to do with the Japanese political parties or their opinions on the issue at all. I have never looked at it as a political issue, either. I personally genuine feel that the Emperor system can be dispensed with.
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